PL Woes

[Xoo]

it did....those 2.5m ragequitters are the guys who want all the features you hate.....remember? That's why they /ragequit

no jumping? /ragequit
no content finder /ragequit
no anything in any new mmo since 2004? /ragequit


I mean we already discussed this Xoo, the mmo style of play you want is DED , DEAD, kaput, fineato, and I asked you to join the revolution, but you continue to fight for the Resistance.....well....

Resistance ....is....futile....

We are mmorg, you will be assimilated. We will add your distinctiveness to our own.

How does this make any sense at all? All the features I hate are still here, and those people are not! Jeez man.

[JakeRoon]

that's exactly what I am saying Xoo, when these things are fixed those player will come to play the game....

as is when they make the game MORE CASUAL, as most players want it to be, not make it MORE ELITE as you would want it to be.

[Noir]

I'll be the first to admit it. I enjoyed the benefit of several PL parties when I was leveling up. That however was only between 10-18. Happened rarely. Still took a week, and was in FFXI :P

The issue I'm finding now is EVERYONE is PLing in FFXIV like crazy. The worst part is that people are delusional enough to DEFEND it!? I keep getting asked what is the problem? I'll tell you the problem.

I ran a Mog pick up and we wiped. Not because we slow killed. Not because we got screwed on the Memento. Not even because of a stray Pom-flare. We lost because our Whm didn't know how to Esuna. Or even what it did. Nor did he realize there was a cool down on PoM and he used it earlier on a random Cura. I asked him in /tell what is going on, if he was drunk.

Nope.

He was new. In fact this was his first week playing.

Full AF level 50 Mog access first weeker.

PLing is getting out of hand and while this may be an extreme case it goes to show the root of the problem. People can level fast too fast and in the process rob themselves of the experience they need to play the game. These are the noobs I guess, they don't know any better. What is truly frightening are the people who have 1-2 50's and PL everything else because they've "earned" it. Or they "learn the job at 40" when you can reach 50 within a day or so in the correct camps.


It defeats the purpose of attaining a capped job and destroys the sense of personal identity. When someone has 1-3 jobs because it simply takes to long to reach their full potential they become recognized for their accomplishment. Also this reflects their mindset and defines them as a player. What happens when 70% of the server has everything capped? Sure you have much easier end game since you can be flexible but at what cost? What I loved in FFXI was gaining expierence and becoming talented in my choice of occupation. When I came to an event I got to show off not only my skill but a piece of personality. I had structure and a sense of belonging because I took pride in my job type.

I understand they are working 'round the clock to make up on content and that 2.0 will bring sweeping changes but this is something that needs attention now. If they allow such a large piece of their core subscribers to get so far ahead this quickly, there will be no one around to enjoy the additions in 2.0

~~~DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA HOW FAST YOU WERE SCROLLING?~~~

Don't forget to check out the Tail Option Thread. Vote for a brighter future for all Roegadyns!

A personal e-mail from Yoshi-P pertaining to his underwear preference.

What does that have to do with plvl? Some people are meant not be skilled. That's why I always ask for skilled players.

[Lux_Rayna]

This is what boggles my head meats. SE went against the grain with FFXI. It never competed with WoW. Instead it funneled a niche into its ranks and thus avoid the inevitable bloody gruesome fate that awaits any MMO that tries to tackle WoW. The game was a finical success and made steady profits over 7 years.

Why. Why after seeing company after company after company after company spend years and millions of doll hairs on their own flavor of the month MMO WoW clone shit their pants, drop to the floor, and suffocate in their own drool would they emulate their parameters?

The answer is in your post... (WARNING: This will be long, so only read if you are genuinely interested in the answer)

FFXI 200-300k subs

This is no longer good enough. Investors will *not* bother with a number that small when they could just go over to blizzard and dump their money there. FF is not the only contender on the scene, there are tons of game being developed to rival WoW. The only reason investors are considering them is because investors are naturally greedy creatures and would rather catch something at the bottom, instead of the top. They love to ride underdogs that turn into real giants. Thats exactly what WoW did, and all of those investors are happy ass campers.

But it was also timing. When FFXI came out in Japan, WoW was just a rumor. When FFXI reached North America, WoW hadn't even started beta testing (well maybe alpha but idk). Both games came out in NA in 2004 (FFXI in March, WoW in November). In other words, a game like FFXI was possible because it was a time when mmorpgs were still a niche thing. Yes Everquest was really popular at the time, but only amongst mmorpg enthusiasts, which was a small fraction of the population. It would make perfect sense to an investor that games like FFXI, which commanded a loyal fanbase of its own through its franchise, could grab a fat share of the mmorpg subscriber population. The same goes for WoW, which was in the same boat, since it had loyalists from its Warcraft franchise. In other words, the market was ripe for opportunity, the franchise label made risk-taking (ie going against the status quo) perfectly acceptable for investors; there had not been major widespread success before that point. At worst, only the loyalists will play those games which would still give a reliable increase in revenue.

But now it is different! We know how the battle turned out; WoW unquestionably won. Both WoW and FFXI went against the grain, but they targetted two different demographics. FFXI appealed to the same rpg enthusiasts/nerds that games like everquest, asheron's call, nwn, had appealed to. What it offered that was different was a combat system based on its console rpg games. Additionally it added the whole job/subjob thing, as well as the ability to be played on a console as well as a pc. This made the interface/menus less than desirable to most ppl, and the combat pacing was much different than the standard. All in all, it managed to capture a fat chunk of the mmorpg population as investors had predicted.

WoW, on the other hand, went the opposite direction. It aimed a product not at rpg enthusiasts, but at the general school-age public. It was pretty genius the way they did it, from the cartoony graphics, to the simple and linear quest progression storyline. The result was millions of subscribers. Rather than directly compete with the other MMO's, they tapped into a larger market where there was no competition: the casual crowd. What had made rpg's so inaccessible to people before got erased, and WoW created a game that was as accessible as Super Mario was on the super nintendo. In a way you could say its the Super Mario of MMORPGs.

The result is that WoW set the standard for all future endeavors. Anyone who hopes to make their investors happy has to compete with WoW. You have to offer a game that can legitimately capture WoW subscribers. That means RPGs are now having to battle it out over casuals, and not rpg enthusiasts. Casuals are the larger market, generally have the most money, and more easily sustain a company's cash flow. If a few hundred quit its no biggie, as a few hundred more will replace them. In the past, if a few hundred rpg die-hards quit, there was no guarantee they'd quickly be replaced. Long story short, there would be no FFXIV unless SE targetted that larger market. If they refused, their investors would jump ship and SE would lose a LOT of money.

[Davorok]

How about a "New Player" Icon that only disappears when we have completed certain content? You could at least spot the PL's that way and shame them. Currently though, there is no motivation to level (classes) through questing.

Personally, I would like to see the entire "Beginning & Mid Game Content" trashed and remade. Here are some of the things I would like to see:

Class Quests that must be completed to unlock Abilities/Spells.

Class Quests that must be completed for Limit Breaks.

Story Quests that must be completed to gain access to the Class Quests.

Class/Story/Side Quests that award must-have items. These items can be epeen gear, NM pop items, artifacts for unlocking content, etc.

GuildLeves (at least 1 per camp) that must be completed to unlock that Aetherite.

Behest changed to something like this: Check counter in city for next (level appropriate) Behest, sign up at counter, auto PT launches when full, if PT is not full Behest auto-scales difficulty then launches. (We can still join at the camps but will Auto-PT with those from cities.)

Repeatable Sidequests (repeatable on each Class).

HNM's, Item-pop NM's, Place-holder NM's, some open world, some instanced, some quest related (required), some easy, some hard, some 100% drop, some frustratingly rare.

Bottom line is this, (whether my suggestions or something else) we desperately need a more Robust, Engaging Beginning and Middle for this game to be anything other than endless Endgame Dungeon runs.

[Zaaku]

To Lux:
That was a well laid out and comprehension answer. I thank you for it even though it breaks my heart.

To Davorok:
I agree with what you are saying and many of those suggestions sound promising. A return to milestones/road blocks which forces the player to slow down and smell the proverbial roses. While hunting down just silly dangerous NM for items in rare and uninhabited bits of the world will bring the rate of rank climbing down while putting to use all those unused unloved nooks and crannies in the game world.

[Vaer]

I agree with what you are saying and many of those suggestions sound promising. A return to milestones/road blocks which forces the player to slow down and smell the proverbial roses. While hunting down just silly dangerous NM for items in rare and uninhabited bits of the world will bring the rate of rank climbing down while putting to use all those unused unloved nooks and crannies in the game world.

Genkai/Limit Breaks woohoo!

Player 1: So guys which way to paper
Player 2: Anyone have a map of Beaucedine Glacier?
Player 3: It's so white
Player 4: So where are we going?
Player 5: Help I got agg
Player 6: I like cheesecake

Maybe they'll bring genkais back when they increase the level cap.

[Peptaru]

I have a question, how well are all the WoW clones doing?.... They must be stealing all of WoW's subscribers right? Copying WoW must be the secret to success..... HINT: It isn't. I do agree with the timing of WoW being the cause for its popularity, but the "casuals" who fell in love with WoW and its mechanics are still playing it. They are not dumping their millions of subs into games like XIV, The few that do leave WoW to come over here, or to other easy-play games, are drops in the bucket and end up going back to it anyway.

Games that try to emulate WoW are going to fail just as hard as games that target the niche crowd. The main problem lies in the fact that while trying to cater to casuals, and failing to steal enough subs from the giant, you're going to alienate the people who want the other style of game. Bad business? Failing to steal customers while alienating your franchise die-hards. I can't think of a worse business model.

[Zaaku]

Genkai/Limit Breaks woohoo!

Player 1: So guys which way to paper
Player 2: Anyone have a map of Beaucedine Glacier?
Player 3: It's so white
Player 4: So where are we going?
Player 5: Help I got agg
Player 6: I like cheesecake

Maybe they'll bring genkais back when they increase the level cap.

I god I giggled like a mad cun-scientist.

[Peptaru]

Genkai/Limit Breaks woohoo!

Player 1: So guys which way to paper
Player 2: Anyone have a map of Beaucedine Glacier?
Player 3: It's so white
Player 4: So where are we going?
Player 5: Help I got agg
Player 6: I like cheesecake

Maybe they'll bring genkais back when they increase the level cap.

That reminds me of my favorite FFXI quote: White Mage; "Wait, did you guys pull already? Where are you?"