Good post OP! This is something along what I think Xoo, myself, and a few others in that thread were getting at. Swapping materia would be a cool alternative if they revamp the materia system, like you suggested. I kinda like the names by the way...
Don't let the Anti-gearswappers get to you. For the most part they will hate any alternative suggested that doesn't completely prevent everyone from swapping stats during battle. They don't need a reason.. haters gonna hate. Immersion? Blinking? Elitism?.. whatever..
Thread: An alternative to gear swaping
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04-13-2012 06:25 AM #11(2)
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04-13-2012 06:33 AM #12Player
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It's not about immersion, blinking or elitism for me, it's about when you need to make the decision; because before battle requires more thought that switching stats, which requires none. To allow the switching stats mid-battle, takes all of the strategy out of preparing for battle. Copying macros takes no strategy what-so-ever.
Originally Posted by Exni
Immersion, blinking and elitism only add to the only reason we need not to add such a cheesy and possibly game-breaking mechanic.(3)Last edited by Molly_Millions; 04-13-2012 at 06:37 AM.
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04-13-2012 07:41 AM #13Player
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Frankly I think I'd rather see them improve upon existing mechanics that push the boundaries of each job in sort of a cohesion effort dynamic sort of gameplay that would promote strengths and use of each of the different jobs/weapon types.
Example:
Have a highly damaging mob, who's strong to blunt and piercing attacks, weak to slash attacks, and has a defensive mechanism barrier that keeps melees from getting close enough to attack and another that inhibits players from doing damage, however to break down the defenses and damage by the mob you need to have a balanced group of each type of attack.
Phase 1:
-Though strong to piercing, mid-long ranged attackers like BRD and DRG can actually reach his defensive mechanism and with positional WS combos can break his first defensive mechanism.
Phase 2:
-Once DD's can get close, the blunt users can focus on damaging his second defense mechanism that's weak to blunt attacks through positional WS combos, so damage can actually be done.
But wait! Let's throw a loop in there and say we really pissed off the NM bloke by taking out his defenses, and now his attack shoots through the roof and he starts to tear the tank a superfluous new one.
Phase 3:
-Now to keep the tank from being destroyed, slash attackers have to focus on doing their own positional WS combos to stun the beast or break whatever part that's letting the NM destroy the tank till the other DD's/BLMs can bring it down.
I'd much rather have a system that promoted party versatility like that, and really let each player shine doing their own part in a group that didn't focus on gear swapping dynamics for performance. If you really wanted too you could bring a secondary weapon that utilized a different form of damage, like how PLD's have Daggers for piercing, Machulettis (sp) for blunt, and regular swords for slash attributes. Personally I think it would add a bit more dynamic gameplay, and at the very least carrying a second or third weapon for each job would be easier on the inventory than carrying four different sets of gear or materia for each job.(1)Last edited by SwordCoheir; 04-13-2012 at 07:43 AM.
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04-13-2012 08:00 AM #14Player
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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions
Stop saying that. It's just simply not true. It doesn't require more thought to viably use less equipment... you will go with whatever is best-in-slot for that fight.. done. If you swap, you could very well start with the EXACT same set someone who's not swapping would for the EXACT same reasons. The swapper is ALSO planning for the dynamic changes that may take place during the fight. He/She is choosing and planning to adjust his stats at different points during the fight for very specific reasons. Both the swapper and non-swapper are cycling through abilities to also account for changes in the fight, as usual. It takes more thought to swap effectively... than to just stand there looking pretty..
"Takes the strategy out of preparing for battle"?? Comments like that suggest you don't understand gear swapping. "Copying macros takes no strategy what-so-ever"?? Comments like that confirm you don't understand gear swapping. Anyone can copy any macro.. so what's your point? Clearly that must be how you go about "making" all your macros. Some of us actually create our own macro's 1) because writing macros isn't rocket science.... and 2) because we want them to be effective for our own individual playstyles. Coming across new gear/soulgem( plug for the OP!
) and thinking "Hmmm.. Maybe I can use that to boost the effect of my self-buff and get a little extra dps,... let just me incorperate that into my (already written) self -buff macro". While someone else mite see that same piece of gear/soulgem and think "Hmmm.. Maybe I can use that for a good new kiting build" and goes and creates +eva +vit +whatever-the-hell-they-want build just in case they unexpectedly grab hate. None of it's required. It's just how some of us would like to play. We choose to add more strategy and planning to our combat.
"Possibly Game-breaking mechanic"? I enjoy alot of what you have to say (and what I hear you do in game ) on the forums. But w/ regard to our brief little discussion on this topic, I'm just done. To each his/her own.(2)
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04-13-2012 08:34 AM #15Player
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Why I don't want gear swapping:
<?xml version="1.0" ?>
<spellcast xmlns:xi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XInclude">
<config RequireVersion="2.4" Debug="false" HideErrors="false" ShowGearSwaps="false" ShowSpellInfo="false" />
<variables>
<xi:include href="../include/elasandria.xml" xpointer="/includes/include[@name='ElementalGear']/*" />
<xi:include href="../include/std.xml" xpointer="/includes/include[@name='StandardVars']/*" />
<var name="DayNight">Day</var>
<var name="DawnDusk">Dawn</var>
</variables>
<sets>
<group name="GearCollection">
<set name="Gear">
<item>Kamome</item>
<item>Taimakuniyuki</item>
<item>Twilight Knife</item>
<item>Crimson Blade</item>
<item>Shellbuster</item>
<item>Unger Boomerang</item>
<item>Bomb Core</item>
<item>Fire Bomblet</item>
<item>$LightStaff</item>
<item>Twilight Torque</item>
<item>Thunder Belt</item>
</set>
</group>
<group default="yes" name="Default">
<set name="Base|*Resting">
<ammo>Fire Bomblet</ammo>
<head>Iga Zukin +2</head>
<body>Iga Ningi +2</body>
<hands>Iga Tekko +2</hands>
<legs>Iga Hakama +2</legs>
<feet>Iga Kyahan +1</feet>
<waist>Twilight Belt</waist>
<neck>Iga Erimaki</neck>
<back>Iga Dochugappa</back>
<lear>Iga Mimikazari</lear>
<rear>Suppanomimi</rear>
<lring>Epona's Ring</lring>
<rring>Heed Ring</rring>
</set>
<set name="*Idle" Default="true" BaseSet="Base">
<feet>Danzo Sune-Ate</feet>
</set>
<set name="*Engaged" BaseSet="Base">
<body>Ninja Chainmail</body>
<back>Atheling Mantle</back>
<neck>Agasaya's Collar</neck>
</set>
<set name="*Regen|*Refresh">
</set>
<set name="Acc|DayAcc">
<head>Theia's Hairpin</head>
<body>Alcide's Harness</body>
<waist>Potent Belt</waist>
<back>Belenos' Mantle</back>
</set>
<set name="NightAcc" BaseSet="DayAcc">
</set>
<set name="Eva|DayEva" BaseSet="$DayNight%Status">
<neck>Torero Torque</neck>
<waist>Sveltesse Gouriz</waist>
<back>Blur Mantle</back>
<lear>Elusive Earring</lear>
<rear>Elusive Earring</rear>
</set>
<set name="NightEva" BaseSet="DayEva">
<legs>Koga Hakama</legs>
</set>
<set name="*MaxEva" BaseSet="$DayNightEva">
<head>Theia's Hairpin</head>
<body>Alcide's Harness</body>
<feet>Ballerines</feet>
</set>
<set name="Tank" BaseSet="$DayNightEva">
</set>
<set name="PDT" BaseSet="Tank">
<neck>Twilight Torque</neck>
</set>
<set name="MDT" BaseSet="Tank">
<neck>Twilight Torque</neck>
</set>
<set name="Haste|DayHaste">
<feet>Ballerines</feet>
</set>
<set name="NightHaste" BaseSet="DayHaste">
<hands>Koga Tekko</hands>
</set>
<set name="Fast_Cast" BaseSet="$DayNightHaste">
</set>
<set name="Ninjutsu" Baseset="Fast_Cast">
</set>
<set name="Elemental" Baseset="Ninjutsu">
</set>
<set name="WeaponSkill" BaseSet="$DayNightEngaged">
<ammo>Bomb Core</ammo>
<head>Aias Bonnet</head>
<body>Iga Ningi +2</body>
<hands>Ochiudo's Kote</hands>
<lear>Centaurus Earring</lear>
<rear>Spike Earring</rear>
</set>
<set name="DayDex" BaseSet="Base">
<head>Iga Zukin +2</head>
<hands>Iga Tekko +2</hands>
<feet>Lithe Boots</feet>
<back>Nifty Mantle</back>
<waist>Fatality Belt</waist>
<lring>Airy Ring</lring>
</set>
<set name="NightDex" BaseSet="DayDex">
<feet>Koga Kyahan</feet>
</set>
<set name="DayAgi" BaseSet="Base">
<head>Theia's Hairpin</head>
<legs>Ambusher's Hose</legs>
<feet>Lithe Boots</feet>
<neck>Arctier's Torque</neck>
<waist>Sveltesse Belt</waist>
<back>Blur Mantle</back>
<rring>Solemn Ring</rring>
</set>
<set name="NightAgi" BaseSet="DayAgi">
</set>
<set name="DayStrDex">
<head>Aias Bonnet</head>
<hands>Iga Tekko +2</hands>
<feet>Iga Kayahan +1</feet>
<back>Nifty Mantle</back>
<neck>Ire Torque +1</neck>
<waist>Sentry Belt</waist>
<lring>Spiral Ring</lring>
<rring>Airy Ring</rring>
</set>
<set name="NightStrDex" BaseSet="DayStrDex">
<hands>Koga Tekko</hands>
<feet>Koga Kyahan</feet>
</set>
<set name="DayStrInt">
<head>Varangian Helm</head>
<body>Iga Ningi +2</body>
<feet>Iga Kayahan +1</feet>
<neck>Ire Torque +1</neck>
<waist>Sentry Belt</waist>
<back>Nifty Mantle</back>
<lring>Spiral Ring</lring>
<rring>Flame Ring</rring>
</set>
<set name="NightStrInt" BaseSet="DayStrInt">
<hands>Koga Tekko</hands>
</set>
<set name="Critical">
<ammo>Qirmiz Tathlum</ammo>
<body>Loki's Kaftan</body>
<neck>Iga Erimaki</neck>
<back>Iga Dochugappa</back>
</set>
</group>
</sets>
<rules>
<if advanced='"$initialized"=="false"'> <!-- Any one time setup stuff -->
<var cmd="set initialized true" />
</if>
<xi:include href="../include/std.xml" xpointer="/includes/include[@name='CancelRules']/*" />
<xi:include href="../include/std.xml" xpointer="/includes/include[@name='ReturnRules']/*" />
<xi:include href="../include/std.xml" xpointer="/includes/include[@name='StdRules']/*" />
<!-- What time is it? -->
<if TimeLT="6.00" mode="OR" TimeGT="17.59">
<var command="set DayNight Night" />
</if>
<else>
<var command="set DayNight Day" />
</else>
<if TimeLT="7.00" mode="OR" TimeGT="16.59">
<var command="set DawnDusk Dusk" />
</if>
<else>
<var command="set DawnDusk Dawn" />
</else>
<if TPGT="5">
<disable slot="Main|Sub|Range" />
</if>
<else>
<enable slot="Main|Sub|Range" />
</else>
<if EquipRange="empty">
<enable slot="ammo" />
</if>
<else>
<disable slot="ammo" />
</else>
<!-- If Yonin is active we shouldn't be changing legs for stuff, Innin we don't want to change out our head -->
<if buffactive="Yonin">
<equip when="aftercast">
<legs lock="true">Iga Hakama +2</legs>
</equip>
</if>
<elseif buffactive="Innin">
<equip when="aftercast">
<head lock="true">Iga Zukin +2</head>
</equip>
</elseif>
<if Skill="Ability">
<if spell="Yonin">
<equip when="Aftercast">
<legs lock="true">Iga Hakama +2</legs>
</equip>
<command when="precast">autoexec unregister 11112</command>
<command when="aftercast">autoexec registeronceq 11111 losebuff_Yonin input /ja "Yonin" <me></command>
</if>
<elseif spell="Innin">
<equip when="aftercast">
<head lock="true">Iga Zukin +2</head>
</equip>
<command when="precast">autoexec unregister 11111</command>
<command when="aftercast">autoexec registeronceq 11112 losebuff_Innin input /ja "Innin" <me></command>
</elseif>
<if Type="WeaponSkill">
<xi:include href="../include/std.xml" xpointer="/includes/include[@name='WeaponSkillRules']/*" />
<if spell="*Teki|*To|*Chi|*Kamu">
<equip when="Precast" set="$DayNightStrInt" />
</if>
<elseif spell="*Rin|*Retsu|*Jin|*Ten|*Ku|Tachi*">
<equip when="Precast" set="$DayNightStrDex" />
</elseif>
<elseif spell="*Yu">
<equip when="Precast" set="$DayNightInt" />
<equip when="Precast" set="$DayNightDexInt" />
</elseif>
<elseif spell="*Metsu|*Shun">
<equip when="Precast" set="$DayNightDex" />
</elseif>
<else>
<equip when="Precast" set="$DayNightAgi" />
</else>
<if spell="*Rin|*Jin|*Hi">
<equip when="precast" set="Critical" />
</if>
</if>
</if>
<else>
<if Skill="Ninjutsu">
<equip when="precast" set="$DayNightHaste" />
<equip when="precast" set="Ninjutsu" />
<if Spell="Utsusemi*">
<!-- Someday I'll get the gear that actually increases number of shadows too -->
<equip when="midcast">
<feet lock="true">Iga Kyahan +2</feet>
</equip>
</if>
<elseif Spell="Hyoton*|Katon*|Suiton*|Raiton*|Doton*|Huton*">
<equip when="midcast" set="Elemental" />
</elseif>
<elseif Spell="Migawari*">
<equip when="midcast|aftercast">
<body lock="true">Iga Ningi +2</body>
</equip>
</elseif>
</if>
</else>
<if spell="autoset">
<equip when="%status|aftercast" set="$DayNight%status" />
<if status="engaged" advanced='("$DDMode" == "Tank" OR "$DDMode" == "Haste" OR "$DDMode" == "Acc" OR "$DDMode" == "Eva" OR "$DDMode" == "MaxEva")'>
<equip when="engaged|aftercast" set="$DayNight$DDMode" />
</if>
<if Status="resting">
<var cmd="set DDMode Idle" />
<command>autoexec unregister 11111;autoexec unregister 11112</command>
</if>
<if HPPLT="95">
<equip when="idle|resting|aftercast" set="Regen" />
</if>
<if MPPLT="95">
<equip when="idle|resting|aftercast" set="Refresh" />
</if>
</if>
<elseif Status="Engaged">
<equip when="engaged|aftercast" set="$DayNightEngaged" />
<if advanced='("$DDMode" == "Tank" OR "$DDMode" == "Haste" OR "$DDMode" == "Acc" OR "$DDMode" == "Eva" OR "$DDMode" == "MaxEva")'>
<equip when="engaged|aftercast" set="$DayNight$DDMode" />
</if>
</elseif>
<elseif Status="Idle">
<equip when="idle|aftercast" set="$DayNightIdle" />
<if HPPLT="95">
<equip when="idle|resting|aftercast" set="Regen" />
</if>
<if MPPLT="95">
<equip when="idle|resting|aftercast" set="Refresh" />
</if>
</elseif>
<else> <!-- We shouldn't get here -->
<var cmd="set DDMode %Status" />
<equip when="idle|engaged|aftecast" set="$DayNight%status" />
</else>
</rules>
</spellcast>
Yes I really have 20+ of these and wrote them all, they're obscene, but super useful, I don't want to go through it again for this game though. That's ~1/3 of the actual script, and only for 1/20 jobs, considering I left out the includes. Obviously I wouldn't actually use this in game or condone the use of such...
But the OP gives a very nice alternative to it, just having gear slots that we could swap specially "souls" in and out of, I can even see this with a minor animation maintaining the immersion that so many MMO players enjoy, while giving the min/maxers their gear swaps in a slightly different form. Keeping a smallish pouch of souls that I've extracted from my favorite gear.
Unless I completely misunderstood. Yes I simplified the crap out of it too.(3)
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04-13-2012 08:58 AM #16Player
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- Excalibur
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- Goldsmith Lv 55
No one told you to go out and violate to ToS by using a third-party program to make an excessive macro-list. Obviously not only was it your choice to do it, but you wanted to do it so badly that you broke the rules of the game and risked getting banned to do so. Sounds to me like your all for it. I never gear-swapped more then what one macro would allow me to do for any spell/ability in FFXI.
Originally Posted by Enfarious
(2)Last edited by StateAlchemist; 04-13-2012 at 09:00 AM.
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04-13-2012 09:12 AM #17Player
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- Klynwilf Spellrifter
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- Adamantoise
- Main Class
- Arcanist Lv 60
You what, why stop with gear swapping?
Lets make it you can change classes/jobs mid combat too!
Combat can be just like FF 10-2. We even can can it dress spheres!
http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Dressphere
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6_vP...eature=related
/sarcasm off(0)Last edited by Klive; 04-13-2012 at 09:17 AM.
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04-13-2012 09:25 AM #18Player
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- Frein Mannis
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- Ragnarok
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- Arcanist Lv 50
If you think a modern MMO gamer new to FFXIV would swallow mid-combat gear swaps, you're utterly delusional. Not only does it have direct negative consequences to the game's presentation and offered gameplay experience, but as game design it is completely unintuitive. No new player who hasn't played FFXI is even going to entertain the thought of being able to change pants during combat because of how detached from their idea of "combat" it is. You don't change pants during combat. You're busy trying to not die! This same argument works just as well against just about any proposed substitute system whether it's visually pleasing or not. You're also too busy to change materia, jewelry, soul gems, shoelaces, moisturizer or whatever "less cumbersome" items you try to insert as a substitute. You don't swap anything that isn't specifically designed to be immediately available, like a weapon hanging from your belt, and even then you drop or toss away your previous weapon because there is no time to fumble around with it. Originally Posted by Exni
The only valid argument for allowing gear swaps is that it would increase the amount of valid sidegrade options, but sidegrades can, to a great extent, exist without it, too. One weapon has tank stats, one has DD stats, one is accurate and good against high evasion monsters, one deals elemental damage, etc. The possibilities for situational gear that is useful outside the context of a mid-battle gear swap are vast. Heck, even WoW had situational but highly useful (even necessary) sidegrades despite of a design philosophy that heavily emphasized gear tiering.(2)Last edited by Frein; 04-13-2012 at 09:57 AM.
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04-13-2012 10:01 AM #19Player
- Join Date
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- Yuyune Kirisame
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- Hyperion
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- Thaumaturge Lv 50
Thanks for editing into something that actually reflects that you read... The lore could easily accommodate for the nature of the fast switch of the soulgems. There could be a quest line that teaches the player how to use the soul gems (much like the how to spiritbond and make materias).
Originally Posted by Frein
More importantly, when did we start to want this game to become another generic modern MMO?
There will obviously be sidegrades to the gear, with or without a system for changing stats mid combat. The range of the sidegrades should be greater if we can switch the stats of our gear around mid combat. In the end you will always select the piece of gear which is best, the difference is the number of roles that you can play in a single fight (mostly referring to the mages).(1)
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04-13-2012 10:11 AM #20Player
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- Illmortal Tyr
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- Excalibur
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- Thaumaturge Lv 60
lol... you're pretty ballsy.
Originally Posted by Enfarious
Sometimes there has to be conformity, at least the slightest bit. Otherwise anything attempting to be a non-conformist will just falter over time.
Originally Posted by WendyMarvell
(0)Last edited by illriginalized; 04-13-2012 at 10:16 AM.
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