I'm One Of The Filthiests Of Casuals And Even I Can See How Dumbdown FF14 Has Become!

[Renathras]

So, at least as far as I and my comment are concerned, the definition of "filler" is less important than what things actually are. There are actions that do not build up anything or towards anything, and that do not themselves have the feel of ending or finishing some sequence of actions. For SMN, that applies to Ruin III and most of the attuned Gemshine actions.

Phew, any port in a storm...at least you're engaging with the topic. You have my thanks.

I think the definition is important if we're trying to pin down what it is as a point of argument. If we're going to use it as an argument against SMN, we need to know what "it" is. I think you give something, though, your own definition: " There are actions that do not build up anything or towards anything, and that do not themselves have the feel of ending or finishing some sequence of actions."

I feel like an issue is that is pretty subjective (for example, I tend to use Garuda as G,G,G,G,AF), and the Slipstream Astral Flow feels like a "cap" on that part of my rotation. Likewise, I tend to use Ifrit with the hardcasts first to get them out of the way, though this is more situational. But as I noted, that still wouldn't include the Demi-Primals, as they ARE the thing you are going towards, but in their own way, refresh the gems to go into the Primals. I also think the problem with "aspected Ruin III" is, not only does it not really express useful information, it's derisive. When one is using needlessly derisive terms in an ongoing topic of contention, it tends to increase contention and animosity.

As for your last point:

I somewhat disagree.

I do not think every Job needs a high skill ceiling, nor do I believe every Job needs a low skill floor. I think it's acceptable for some Jobs to have a high skill floor - as long as it's not EVERY Job. And I likewise feel it's acceptable for some Jobs to have a low skill ceiling - as long as it's not EVERY Job. Provided players have options if they'd rather the different ones, I think that's good game design. It's when there are no options that it becomes a problem.

BLM exists, so SMN existing is fine to me. If BLM didn't exist, I'd think that was bad. If SMN didn't exist, I'd think that was bad.

If nothing else, I'm "equal opportunity" on the issue.

EDIT: From here and below, but edit being done as I post, so no additions or changes

Since the discussion has become entirely about SMN, and having been vocal about SMN not being great before, I'll just toss my 2 cents in.

As I say above, I suppose this comes down to individual belief.

I think it's good as a DPS, since there are other Jobs that don't work that way. Consider the alternative - if every job was like SMN. That would be bad as well. For my part, I think diversity of options is key. Any heavy limits on that, I consider negative. (I also contest RPR is "a very simple Job" but that's neither here nor there and I haven't played with it enough yet; about to, though, since it's the only Job I have left to get the story from so leveling it to at least 80 because I want to do all its story quests...)

And you clearly don't understand how BLM works if you use their entire rotation as an example for filler. I do not need to list off every other job ability in the game to point out your incorrect example of BLM filler.

Yet anther person in bad faith. Either answer the question or don't.

EDIT2: I am NOT wasting a post on this:

Honestly it's better to just ignore them at this point, they have been told the same thing times and times again, they don't care, 99% of people don't have the time or dont want to read giant novels that could be tldr'd to a few sentences, it just ain't worth it.

Ah, Stormpeaks. Don't ever change.

Also: It's "he", not "them", just so you know. Thanks. And again, please DO tell me how THIS POST is "giant novels that could be tldr'd":

Nonono, that wasn't my question.

Can you tell me what you define as filler for OTHER JOBS that you are familiar with which ARE NOT Summoner, please?

Maybe realize your canned ad hominem attack on me, this once, isn't justified.