I'm One Of The Filthiests Of Casuals And Even I Can See How Dumbdown FF14 Has Become!

[Renathras]

How about if....

I get you're mad at being pinned down, but please chill. I asked nicely MULTIPLE times.

But whatever let’s use DNC, DNC’s filler is 1(2)3(4) standard step on CD with a few exceptions very close to the technical window or if you overcap on resources

Okay, this is something to work with. So, DNC's filler, in your mind, includes Cascade, Fountain, Reverse Cascade, Fountainfall, and Standard Step on CD.

Fair?

What these actions seem to have in common is that they're direct damage actions where two of them don't have preconditions (though Fountain can be used incorrectly), two of them do but the preconditions are light (they require a proc from one of the former two), and one of them has a CD, but it's a very short CD, less than 60 seconds (you didn't include Flourish, so I'm using "less than 60 seconds" as a working category here). Probably the better way to say that is 30 seconds (inclusive) or less?

So it would be fair to say things with a CD of greater than 60 or more seconds (so 59 or less is filler, 60 or more is not), which aren't always readily available, and which you want to use together and maximize by using within the party burst window(s), and your filler builds towards, would basically be non-filler?

So in the case of SMN, Primals, Gemshine, Aastral Flow, and Ruin 3 would be filler by this definition.

Demis, Searing Light, Enkindle, Astral Flow (for Baha/Phoenix), Energy Drain/Siphon, Fester/Painflare, and Ruin 4 would not be filler, nor would Ruin 3 while under Bahamut or Phoenix.

Again, it's not "fail states", so that's irrelevant. I'm looking at what are filler and non-filler actions in your example, and applying them fairly to SMN by looking at comparable abilities. (Granted, I'd rather you use literally any Job OTHER THAN DNC [or BLM] since DNC has the proc business going on, but...)

.

Can you give examples of any other Jobs?

Did you disagree with my RDM definition of Jolt/Thunder/Jolt/Aero (replace Jolt with Stone/Fire as procs available) are filler actions, for example?

I'm only being specific with BLM because I'm not arrogant enough to claim expertise in other jobs.

I didn't ask for expertise.

I asked what you consider filler in other Jobs besides BLM. You don't need to be an expert to know how RDM works, for example. You CLEARLY don't for SMN, apparently.

You gave a definition there, "to maintain consistent timing of a jobs main rotation to avoid it drifting out of alignment"; pick ANY JOB IN THE GAME besides SMN or BLM and tell me which actions/abilities fit that definition.

[AmiableApkallu]

*snip*

So, at least as far as I and my comment are concerned, the definition of "filler" is less important than what things actually are. There are actions that do not build up anything or towards anything, and that do not themselves have the feel of ending or finishing some sequence of actions. For SMN, that applies to Ruin III and most of the attuned Gemshine actions.

So... If someone wants to include Ruin III in SMN's "filler," then it makes sense to me to also include most of the attuned Gemshine actions. If someone (pejoratively) refers to "aspected Ruin III," then I think I know what they mean. :shrug:

Along these same lines <insert vigorous waving of hands>, I care less what exactly defines a "easy job" versus a "hard job", and more that every job have a sufficiently low barrier of entry and yet still provide room for "skill expression" (or whatever people want to call it).

[OgruMogru]

I didn't ask for expertise.

I asked what you consider filler in other Jobs besides BLM. You don't need to be an expert to know how RDM works, for example. You CLEARLY don't for SMN, apparently.

And you clearly don't understand how BLM works if you use their entire rotation as an example for filler. I do not need to list off every other job ability in the game to point out your incorrect example of BLM filler.