FFXIV Job Design Feedback

[ForsakenRoe]

Feedback is useful for finding problems that need addressed, but the reason Devs rarely do what players ask for specifically is because those are usually (not always, but very often) bad ideas. Devs try to take the good ones, or the "good enough" ones and massage them into something workable, but there are as many or more bad ideas for solutions as there are good ones.

They straight up said 'we didn't really know what to do with SCH'. So if people give ideas for SCH and 90% of the ideas are bad and 10% are good, that's still better than what the devs have got, which by their own admission is 'idk lmao'. If what they came up with when 'they didn't really know what to do with SCH' is a partywide sprint/mit, and whatever Protraction is trying to be, then 7.0 will likely have even less to go with because the few passable ideas they did have, were added in with 6.0. Even if the 'bad ideas' here make them think 'this is such a bad idea, in fact it is so bad we should do X instead', then the bad idea prompted that 'good idea' from the devs and that's still a win indirectly caused by someone giving their feedback

[fulminating]

Protraction is pretty much a targetable thrill, dunno seemed a nice callback to the whole scholar/marauder thing they were going on about in the job quests. It’s also completely unnecessary, but for flavour reasons it’s kind of nice.

[Renathras]

You know, I hadn't made that connection, but it does make sense.

(Wanted to bump for new people, but that's also something to say).

As for the feedback...hard to say......

[Raikai]

I forgot I took some of those polls already, but thanks for the thread!

I was looking at the answers and one of those caught my eye, and it's for Dancers:

"A combat rez for their dance partners on a 2-3min cooldown"

That's actually a pretty neat idea of some unique defensive utility. I would even go further and raise the cooldown even more to 5 or 6 minutes and add the effect of this being a raise without ressurection sickness. It could be really nice as a maybe once-a-fight recovery because obviously your dance partner rezzing with lower dps impacts on your own dps.

[ty_taurus]

Are they still open? I don't remember if I ever closed them.

I would really like to revamp the survey and share it more places, but it feels like it'd just be repetitive to do it now. I might consider doing another one after the media tour showcase to see what everyone's first impressions are, so hopefully that one will have a lot more polish and feel more professional so that I feel comfortable sharing it more places.

[Renathras]

Raikai: Well, DNC is, of the Ranged, the one right now least in need of any aid. I do agree it would be an interesting bit of flavor utility. But then, Monk in FFTactics had a (somewhat hit or miss) raise, the Revive ability. But despite it being thematic, it isn't in FFXIV. I'm not saying it's a bad idea, it just seems that DNC is the Ranged least in need of it. (BEFORE they (re)added MCH's Disassemble, I would have thought it getting a AED/Defibrilate or something would have made sense, but it seems to be doing a lot better now.)

Ty: It wasn't bad at all, and the data was useful, even with the caveats I've mentioned before. I think a few "lessons learned" could go a long way to making your next iteration even better. Some things are just hard to sus out of people (e.g. did SMN get low marks because people genuinely don't like it, because people that liked old SMN are upset and give it low marks regardless of how good it is because they blame it for losing the version they loved, or people who oppose "dumbing down" of the game in general giving it low marks regardless of the merits of the Job itself - it's VERY hard to actually tease out an answer to that). And it's also hard to control for samples (e.g. BLM is the least popular Job in the game excepting possibly MNK, and yet gets the highest rating of all Jobs in this survey, indicating either the sample was significantly different than the playerbase at large or included a lot of people that really like BLM in it somehow and/or the bulk of the people that rated BLM were those who like it with those that do not largely abstaining from it). And We've mentioned the issue of 1-10 vs 0-10 before, as well as how things like minor/major/total rework are...uh...vague and mean different things to different people.

But notwithstanding that, I still think you did a good job and I felt the results were interesting to read through and consider. A poll doesn't have to be perfect to still be useful.

I'd 100% support another in the future, and I think you're right that around the Media Tour would be a good time to see people's first impressions, and possibly a month or two after 7.0 launch itself to see how people feel with the Jobs once they've been released. Sort of a comparison of "what we thought it would be like" and "what it actually was like", which are always interesting.

[ty_taurus]

The biggest mistake I made was having the option to fill in things you want to see more or less of. Because this was the outcome:



It's too much information that can't be parsed through and doesn't really show how many people are of the same mind. I want to redo those segments to offer more specific options that can be shared on the public data far more clearly.

[Renathras]

Yeah, makes sense.

When I went through and tried to catalogue all the responses I got from Reddit, it was a similar boat. Only in that case it was even WORSE since the answers were totally free-form, so I was trying to think of categories that seemed to be what people were saying, but then someone would give an answer straddling categories or something new, and by the time I was done, I had roughly a third of the answers worth of separate categories, which makes it nearly impossible to make much sense of other than the very general (granted, part of the point, but still) "love, like, neutral, dislike, hate" sentiment, as most people were...generally pretty clear on that part.

Doing mine and seeing yours definitely has given me more to stew on in terms of considering how pollsters do their jobs and how tricky it can be to get something actionable (or even parsable) out of it...

[ty_taurus]

I'm thinking of rewording those questions to something along the lines of...

"What do you think [job name] needs to expand on?"
"Is there anything you think [job name] has too much of or doesn't need?"

Here are the options I'm thinking I'd give for each role. Note that some of the options might change for specific jobs based on what they do or don't have.

Tanks

• Basic Combo
• Other DPS Actions
• Gauge Actions
• Personal Mitigation
• Team Mitigation
• Personal Healing/Barriers
• Team Healing/Barriers
• Aggro Management
• Mobility
• Other Utility
• Nothing/Unsure

Melee DPS

• Basic Combo
• Other DPS Actions
• Gauge Actions
• Positionals
• Damage Buffs
• Mitigation
• Healing/Barriers
• Mobility
• Other Utility
• Nothing/Unsure

Physical Ranged DPS

• Basic Combo
• Other DPS Actions
• Gauge Actions
• Damage Buffs
• Mitigation
• Healing/Barriers
• Mobility
• Other Utility
• Nothing/Unsure

Caster DPS

• Cast Time DPS Actions
• Instant Cast DPS Actions
• DPS Cooldowns (oGCD)
• Gauge Actions
• Damage Buffs
• Mitigation
• Healing/Barriers
• MP Management
• Mobility
• Other Utility
• Nothing/Unsure

Healers

• Cast Time DPS Actions
• Instant Cast DPS Actions
• DPS Cooldowns (oGCD)
• Healing Spells (GCD)
• Healing Abilities (oGCD)
• Barrier Spells (GCD)
• Barrier Abilities (oGCD)
• Gauge Actions
• Damage Buffs
• Single Target Mitigation
• Party Mitigation
• MP Management
• Mobility
• Other Utility
• Nothing/Unsure

Is there anything I'm missing in any of those? Or anything I could be more specific about that would be worth expanding on? Or anything I'm being too specific with?

[RokkuEkkusu]

^^

I concur with most of your list. However, other than boss positioning, gap closers, and the usual long-ranged pull options, would mobility be a concern for tanks compared to melee dps?