FFXIV Job Design Feedback

[ty_taurus]

I agree that DRG's invuln on jumping wouldn't be an 'unfair' mechanic in PVE. Is it possible DRG could cheese enrages on some level? Maybe, but as a fragile DPS with no access to raising, the amount of time it has after it lands to try and take advantage of a few extra seconds is highly limited, and even then situations where you even could try and cheese a few extra seconds are extremely rare anyway.

But I don't think that limit break system translates very well to PVE. I think PVE limit breaks needs a rework, and I'm not entirely sure how they should go about it, but I don't think the answer is PVP limit breaks. I know most people around the forums have no faith in Dawntrail being anything more than Shadowbringers 3.0, but as a new expansion, there's an opportunity to introduce more drastic changes to spice up the gameplay in some way. It's been done with gauges. Saying it cannot happen is silly; which isn't to say that it will happen either. It just shouldn't be discounted.

[Ivtrix]

I agree that DRG's invuln on jumping wouldn't be an 'unfair' mechanic in PVE. Is it possible DRG could cheese enrages on some level? Maybe, but as a fragile DPS with no access to raising, the amount of time it has after it lands to try and take advantage of a few extra seconds is highly limited, and even then situations where you even could try and cheese a few extra seconds are extremely rare anyway.

But I don't think that limit break system translates very well to PVE. I think PVE limit breaks needs a rework, and I'm not entirely sure how they should go about it, but I don't think the answer is PVP limit breaks. I know most people around the forums have no faith in Dawntrail being anything more than Shadowbringers 3.0, but as a new expansion, there's an opportunity to introduce more drastic changes to spice up the gameplay in some way. It's been done with gauges. Saying it cannot happen is silly; which isn't to say that it will happen either. It just shouldn't be discounted.

It wouldnt work. Enrage damage goes through all immunities.

[Shurrikhan]

But I don't think that limit break system translates very well to PVE. I think PVE limit breaks needs a rework, and I'm not entirely sure how they should go about it, but I don't think the answer is PVP limit breaks.

I mean, I guess the first order of business is just to set down what the PvE LB does for gameplay, and perhaps what it's supposed to do and how it could better do that (if different from what it currently accomplishes).


At present, it's, what... a band-aid "fix" to removing too many tanks or healers if a fight would demand a tank LB3 within the first 7 minutes or so? I.e., it allows the devs to mask role issues via the occasional hard composition check. (The damaging LBs, though, are of increasingly little significance, as their throughput hasn't increased over levels at the rate that party DPS has, so without an actually required LB... the constraint is impotent.)

Apart from that, it just adds the gameplay of making sure you can stand in place for long enough for an LB3, a tiny bit of mechanical trimming (though this hasn't been especially noticeable or offered much choice in recent times), and redeeming near wipes (especially in more casual content where you wouldn't then just die to Enrage anyways), and who among the parse-party gets stuck with the rDPS penalty of using the LB.


Of those, probably the Healer LB3 is the only real notable advantage of having that system, since the pulls it can save aren't usually the ones we're worried about being too thereby cheesed to the point of losing the engagement they'd have otherwise (even in the Ultimate mechanics it's useful for, it seems to add to that engagement rather than undermine it), since tank LB requirements are largely just circuitous on-cue uses (though lower Tank LB optional uses can be decently interesting at times, if the timing of the mechanic to gauge generation lines up nicely enough).

Moreover, each could probably be just as interestingly produced from job-unique LBs (be they a party-shared resource or not, or even half-shared) with high maximum charge (and assuming they could use a fine/granular charge system instead of current LBs block system).

:: For instance, the maximum effect of the current Healer LB3 could as easily be some 6 minutes' worth of WHM Adrenaline/Limit Gauge saved up, while most DPS and tanks might generally have far shorter maximums. Etc., etc.

[Oizen]

If anything giving a dps a move like that would let them skip a singular raidwide damage at most.
Almost every mechanic in recent memory has some sort of way of bypassing invulns if the mechanic is failed. It wouldn't be as impactful as it sounds, save for maybe some niche application in content like Deep Dungeons.

[Shurrikhan]

If anything giving a dps a move like that would let them skip a singular raidwide damage at most.
Almost every mechanic in recent memory has some sort of way of bypassing invulns if the mechanic is failed. It wouldn't be as impactful as it sounds, save for maybe some niche application in content like Deep Dungeons.

Let's say I give you the choice between (A) a 60s CD that shields for 25% of your HP and (B) a 3-minute CD that fully immunizes a single hit.

Which are you going to take in Deep Dungeons?
Which are you going to take in Savage, or other content that could actually be significantly cheesed by skipping that mechanic?

...I don't think the impact, if balanced to be anywhere of use to Deep Dungeon, would be particularly negligible unless you make it as shit as original Shake it Off (working on almost nothing, with no indicator as to whether something will work until you risk wasting it and likely wiping in the process if it would have actually made a tactical difference). Which would probably cause more annoyance that it's worth.

[ty_taurus]

I'm working on setting up the Media Tour Survey which I'll be able to share in a new thread soon. I'm in the process of trying to collect some early data that I can use to help build a hub for written answers, and once I have all that finished for the blogpost, I'll share it here, on reddit, and also try and reach out to some other communities of players to try and get a more varied selection of responses. But here's a sneak peak:

[ASkellington]

Are the jobs there supposed to be your "main" or are supposed to be options for what you play on the regular?

[ty_taurus]

Are the jobs there supposed to be your "main" or are supposed to be options for what you play on the regular?

The first question is "Do you currently consider yourself a [job] player" with a follow-up if you answer "no" that asks why you're interested in those jobs' changes: you used to play the job, you're interested in playing the job, you're interested in the balance of that job's role, you're interested in all job changes, or other.

So It doesn't have to be your main. The follow-up questions are about what out of several categories are you interested in seeing added or changed during the media tour, of those you chose, which is the one you are most interested in, how do you rate your job currently, an a 1000 character written response about any specific details you want to see.

[Sebazy]

Media Tour Wishlist.

Needs an option for 'The expansion to drop without 1 healer being hobbled by stupid oversights' or I riot

[ForsakenRoe]

Needs an option for 'The expansion to drop without 1 healer being hobbled by stupid oversights' or I riot

Best I can do is 'SCH feels wonky because the devs removed Energy Drain again', take it or leave it