A few questions for the BLM mains/enjoyers

[Taranok]

Can't believe we used to play around a 10 second astral/umbral buff that refreshed when your spell did the DAMAGE, not upon or slightly before the cast bar finished... I guess before Fire 4 it was still among the easiest DPS jobs though.

The funniest thing is the BLM community constantly says that BLM is the most perfect and best designed class in the game, and collectively squee over every small quality of life change it gets.

Like, don't get me wrong, I think BLM's core is great, but its structure is trash and this continual use of a literal ARR design choice to structure the rotation is so confusing that new players still can't figure out how to properly do its rotation when they get fire 3 and 4.

And yeah, losing AF/UI because of spell travel time was hilarious and stupid. They 'fixed' it fast but never dealt with the underlying problem.

[Llynethil]

Umbral soul probably doesn't need to be level 10 (I think it's good that BLM starts by transpose juggling and then gets more powerful as the job progresses) but it should at LEAST be pre-70, not getting to use it in ultimate feelsbad, never mind that so much of BLM damage is tied up in Xenoglossy.

I think the 15 second timer is plenty, but I wouldn't mind a "stasis" GCD that basically works like Anatman until you press either Fire III or Blizzard III (or Fire II or Blizzard II I guess) on like a 30-60s cooldown. The Catch™ is that this stasis GCD would need to work even through movement or cutscene triggers, and I don't think Anatman even does that.

So the way I envision it, it would work like a mixture between Anatman and Perfect Balance "finisher" where it locks your current timer and buffs, but ONLY B3/F3 or B2/F2 are lit up to use. If you don't use one of those (applying the fast cast if the AF/UI was level III), then you lose it. And yeah something like 60s CD would probably be fine.

For existing blm players this sounds fine, but the point of the 20s specifically is geared towards people trying out the job or who are new, make the job a little bit more forgiving which makes people new to the job less frustrated at playing it and feel bad when they miss the 15s timer while keeping it exactly the same for existing blm players, they don't get affected by this at all so win win.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

For existing blm players this sounds fine, but the point of the 20s specifically is geared towards people trying out the job or who are new, make the job a little bit more forgiving which makes people new to the job less frustrated at playing it and feel bad when they miss the 15s timer while keeping it exactly the same for existing blm players, they don't get affected by this at all so win win.

It would undoubtedly make the entry to BLM easier, but increasing it to 20s would most likely have huge impact to how BLM is played at high level, both pre-Paradox and post-Paradox. Fire IV optimisation and the value of spell speed would change and more lines completely without Fire I (pre-Paradox) and potentially skipping Blizzard IV will exist, using the Paradox gained via Umbral Ice swap in Astral Fire instead. Can also see an increase in Transpose + Sharp Fire III uses to further avoid Blizzard IV / Fire I lines.

At least this is how I see it. Regardless, 20s AF/UI would have a huge impact for both entry level and high level BLM.

[Zairava]

It would undoubtedly make the entry to BLM easier, but increasing it to 20s would most likely have huge impact to how BLM is played at high level, both pre-Paradox and post-Paradox. Fire IV optimisation and the value of spell speed would change and more lines completely without Fire I (pre-Paradox) and potentially skipping Blizzard IV will exist, using the Paradox gained via Umbral Ice swap in Astral Fire instead. Can also see an increase in Transpose + Sharp Fire III uses to further avoid Blizzard IV / Fire I lines.

At least this is how I see it. Regardless, 20s AF/UI would have a huge impact for both entry level and high level BLM.

Some spitball that comes to mind, but perhaps they could bring sharpcast at a lower level to ease the barrier of entry a little bit? I mean, ultimately it would probably still be used for thundercloud in most contexts, but it still would allow new players to use it on Fire I to reserve a firestarter proc

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

Some spitball that comes to mind, but perhaps they could bring sharpcast at a lower level to ease the barrier of entry a little bit? I mean, ultimately it would probably still be used for thundercloud in most contexts, but it still would allow new players to use it on Fire I to reserve a firestarter proc

Would be completely nonsensical to me. Sharpcast is already Lv54 and before Lv60 when obtaining Fire IV there is basically no decision to be made when using Sharpcast. You use it on Thunder III once and then basically hold it on cooldown using Fire I, which is your main spell until Lv60. You don't even preserve Firestarter at those levels, you actually use each one of them as they are available EXCEPT if you get Firestarter on your final Fire I in your Astral Fire window, then you go one of those lines for optimisation:

• -> Blizzard III -> Blizzard I -> Thunder III (Thundercloud) -> Transpose -> Fire III (Firestarter)
• -> Blizzard III -> (Sharp) Thunder III (hardcast) -> Scathe -> Transpose -> Fire III (Firestarter)
• -> Blizzard III -> Blizzard I -> Scathe -> Transpose -> Fire III (Firestarter) [only if you recently reapplied Thunder III)

What they COULD do is bring the 30s-Sharpcast trait down to baseline since Sharpcast has a 60s recast initially.

[Zairava]

Would be completely nonsensical to me. Sharpcast is already Lv54 and before Lv60 when obtaining Fire IV there is basically no decision to be made when using Sharpcast. You use it on Thunder III once and then basically hold it on cooldown using Fire I, which is your main spell until Lv60. You don't even preserve Firestarter at those levels, you actually use each one of them as they are available EXCEPT if you get Firestarter on your final Fire I in your Astral Fire window, then you go one of those lines for optimisation:

• -> Blizzard III -> Blizzard I -> Thunder III (Thundercloud) -> Transpose -> Fire III (Firestarter)
• -> Blizzard III -> (Sharp) Thunder III (hardcast) -> Scathe -> Transpose -> Fire III (Firestarter)
• -> Blizzard III -> Blizzard I -> Scathe -> Transpose -> Fire III (Firestarter) [only if you recently reapplied Thunder III)

What they COULD do is bring the 30s-Sharpcast trait down to baseline since Sharpcast has a 60s recast initially.

Makes sense. I think Black Mage is perfectly fine as is (I enjoy optimizing and skill-expression even in places it doesn't matter), I was just trying to find a sort of compromise.

Sharpcast being brought down to 30s baseline is something I have thought about while running Black Mage occasionally in roulettes, but then I wonder if it would be truly necessary, which I don't feel it is personally.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

Makes sense. I think Black Mage is perfectly fine as is (I enjoy optimizing and skill-expression even in places it doesn't matter), I was just trying to find a sort of compromise.

Sharpcast being brought down to 30s baseline is something I have thought about while running Black Mage occasionally in roulettes, but then I wonder if it would be truly necessary, which I don't feel it is personally.

Making Sharpcast 30s baseline is something you will start feeling if you do Lv60 and Lv70 EX trials and Savage raids synced for the experience or you doing Ultimate. It would be a huge benefit for the consistency and a fair change given how obscenely powerful Summoner is allowed to be on those levels while having a fraction of hardcasts that BLM does.

[Llugen]

For existing blm players this sounds fine, but the point of the 20s specifically is geared towards people trying out the job or who are new, make the job a little bit more forgiving which makes people new to the job less frustrated at playing it and feel bad when they miss the 15s timer while keeping it exactly the same for existing blm players, they don't get affected by this at all so win win.

On top of what Reinhardt said about the implications for a 20s timer at endgame, people new to the job presumably will be leveling it from level 1, meaning every spell they do either refreshes the timer or cancels it. I suppose with this in mind I don't see how making the timer longer would be helpful to low level play.. not sure how anyone could go a full 15 seconds without casting a single spell and if they do then their issue is not BLM specific it is the ABC fundamental.

And as an aside, from a "job learning" perspective this is probably the main reason that Fire IV is still level 60 and not 50, for players to get the feel of how refreshing works first.

Makes sense. I think Black Mage is perfectly fine as is (I enjoy optimizing and skill-expression even in places it doesn't matter), I was just trying to find a sort of compromise.

I agree that BLM actually having rotational optimization and skill expression is a thing that should be protected, however I strongly dislike the mindset that the job (or any job, or ANYthing in the game) is "perfectly fine as-is". We as a playerbase should ALWAYS be pointing out possible unintended quirks and frustrations, letting them decide if it was intended or not, and suggestions for improvement, as we are the people who actually do the stuff regularly.

[Llynethil]

On top of what Reinhardt said about the implications for a 20s timer at endgame, people new to the job presumably will be leveling it from level 1, meaning every spell they do either refreshes the timer or cancels it. I suppose with this in mind I don't see how making the timer longer would be helpful to low level play.. not sure how anyone could go a full 15 seconds without casting a single spell and if they do then their issue is not BLM specific it is the ABC fundamental.

And as an aside, from a "job learning" perspective this is probably the main reason that Fire IV is still level 60 and not 50, for players to get the feel of how refreshing works first..

And yet you still see ice mages, 0 damage healers, keyboardturning tanks, etc etc ...

The majority of mmo players in general aren't good at games, this was a thing back in wow, in gwars, in eso and also in ff14.

And that's ok, you play games to have fun first and foremost, and losing that 15s timer and have to start all over again, isn't fun, and this happens to many people who try out blm, then drop it because of that (and the rotation seem complicated at first glance, but it's really not that bad at all once you practise it a bit.)

You have to stop looking at this from an experienced player pov and try and view it from a beginners or not so good players' perspective, those extra 5s can be a huge help to them to keep having fun.

And yeah it might affect max lvl rotation, but you're still bound by your manapool, once you used font it's basically same as usual.
Who knows, maybe this could lead to an interesting new strat even at max lvl that make blm more rewarding for experienced players and being top dps in the raid.

This is why I wish there was a non content but only job PTR for ff14, do changes like this, let players break the job completely doing this, and if the data is good, implement if, if no find another way, hard to say other wise.

[Llugen]

And yet you still see ice mages, 0 damage healers, keyboardturning tanks, etc etc ...

...You have to stop looking at this from an experienced player pov and try and view it from a beginners or not so good players' perspective, those extra 5s can be a huge help to them to keep having fun...

I don't think I was able to fully communicate the weight of what I mean when I said missing ABC fundamentals, so let me do so now.

Always Be Casting is of course a pretty intermediate notion, not even really "experienced", but trying to adjust the job to make up for someone not adhering to this fundamental rule for ALL jobs in the game is a flawed idea. If a player is not doing ABCs, the problem is not the job, and no amount of design changes for the job are going to help.

Yes players are going to ice mage or pure heal, but that shouldn't inform the overall design of the class, if not solely because those players don't care about the design of the class.. they just want to spam freeze or whatever. As an aside, a good way to combat something like the ice mage fantasy IMO would actually be to lean into it... make an NPC at the THM guild that basically "swaps" your astral with your umbral, so the class functions exactly the same but backwards (So Blizzard IV is your damage spell, Fire IV gives you Astral hearts, Freeze/Flare inverted, etc.). That purely aesthetic option alone would would probably go SIGNIFICANTLY further than any standard job tweak they could throw (and they would probably FEEL better after being acknowledged, frankly), because again the nature of the issue is not the job, it's the player mentality.


Also on the contrary, we DO have to look at it from an experienced player POV, that experience including trying to grasp how to level when I started playing the game 10 years ago, because jobs cannot be balanced around lower level play if they become broken/ruined at higher level play because of it. As an experienced player I vividly remember the leveling frustrations (in fact they were even worse when I did it, but that's besides the point), and it is from that perspective that suggestions should be made precisely because of experiencing said frustrations, not just saying "screw the newbies".