I'm bored when I heal because I need more complex DPS rotations

[ForsakenRoe]

"SB WHM but with all the better things from EW" is just EW WHM with Aero 3.

(It's kind of funny to me ASkellington below you made that comment considering when I suggested making Holy part of the single-target rotation, he opposed it as "No, that's for AOE", yet wants an AOE ability that would be part of the single target rotation, Aero 3, readded. How weird's that?)

For the record, btw, I'm fine with re-adding Aero 3

- So the sum of the changes is 'readd Aero3 as either an AOE 24s DOT, or a 24s burst CD ala Phlegma (probably the former is better, to differentiate the two skills)', and everything else is just 'what we have now'? SO I'm not really sure why the suggestion of 'leave WHM alone' was made, when it's literally just one change between what others said, and what you said.

- Aero 3 is one of those skills that was designed to be used for both ST and AOE. It's potency was high enough that you'd use it in ST as well. Holy has never had potency remotely close to being able to use it in ST, and at this point, even a proc that says 'next Holy does double damage' is not enough (150x2 is not greater than 310 from Glare). Retrofitting it to be 'better than Glare in certain conditions for ST' seems like more effort than just not, and having another button for the purpose instead. Or changing Holy into a new skill ala Inner Chaos/Fell Cleave, maybe.

- So you're okay with adding a 24s DOT back to the job that does (as of SB's potencies from wikis) 150ish% of the damage of a Glare over it's duration, but not, for example, a 15s burst damage button that does 110% of Glare, and has interactivity with other parts of the job? I thought you were against DOTs, and against 'adding more keybinds', but this would do both, all while having less interplay with other parts of the kit, instead being just 'a random standalone button'. ????

instead a successful team learns and adapts.

Wish they'd adapt to the fact that the biggest hype WHM gets in job action trailers is for the new ranks of Stone/Glare, Misery's reveal, and I remember a lot of people getting very giddy about Purgation (though it turned out to be PVP). Additionally, the amount of attacks SGE threw out in the EW actions trailer (all of them lol) compared to SCH, in conjunction with the Expedience fiasco, had plenty of people on Reddit claiming SCH was going to be DOA, and that SGE looks like the hype cool 'Disc Priest Damage healer the game needs' etc., because it used Dosis, E.Dosis, Phlegma, Dyskrasia, Toxikon AND Pnuema. And an Icarus for good measure.

There's a consistent pattern of people getting very excited about any new 'do big damage' buttons. And it's kinda odd to me that SE keeps avoiding adding new ones. I invite anyone to go back and watch WHM sections of those job action trailers. Can you tell if they're casting Cure 1 or Cure 2 in the demo? Me either. Because most healing actions look very similar to one another, they all blend together. If SE randomly swapped the animations on Medica 1 and Medica 2 one day without telling anyone, how many people would even notice?

[ty_taurus]

Holy has never had potency remotely close to being able to use it in ST

You know, it's funny you should say that...



This was from ARR White Mage, not that this invalidates anything you're saying of course, I just think it's really interesting and kinda funny. Not that using Holy for single target DPS was a great idea generally because Holy's MP cost was very unsustainable. Which for the record, does anyone remember that Shroud of Saints, White Mage's original Lucid Dreaming, had a 3 minute cooldown and lasted only 15 seconds instead of 21? The MP refresh potency was higher at 80 compared to Lucid Dreaming's 55, but the fact that it had a 3 minute cooldown blows my mind. Especially when you look at Scholar who's Aetherflow was still 60 seconds, restored their MP by a flat 20%, and they still had Energy Drain, which was 150 potency compared to Ruin's 80, and therefore better to use for damage and heal with Adloquium/Succor rather than heal with Lustrate or block with Sacred Soil.

[Silver-Strider]

You know, it's funny you should say that...



This was from ARR White Mage, not that this invalidates anything you're saying of course, I just think it's really interesting and kinda funny. Not that using Holy for single target DPS was a great idea generally because Holy's MP cost was very unsustainable. Which for the record, does anyone remember that Shroud of Saints, White Mage's original Lucid Dreaming, had a 3 minute cooldown and lasted only 15 seconds instead of 21? The MP refresh potency was higher at 80 compared to Lucid Dreaming's 55, but the fact that it had a 3 minute cooldown blows my mind. Especially when you look at Scholar who's Aetherflow was still 60 seconds, restored their MP by a flat 20%, and they still had Energy Drain, which was 150 potency compared to Ruin's 80, and therefore better to use for damage and heal with Adloquium/Succor rather than heal with Lustrate or block with Sacred Soil.

The pain of Coils as a WHM, STARVING for MP because of Lucid's ridiculous CD.

I miss those days lol

[Renathras]

- So the sum of the changes is 'readd Aero3 as either an AOE 24s DOT, or a 24s burst CD ala Phlegma (probably the former is better, to differentiate the two skills)', and everything else is just 'what we have now'? SO I'm not really sure why the suggestion of 'leave WHM alone' was made, when it's literally just one change between what others said, and what you said.

"leave one alone" in this case meant "don't make WHM its SB form". That is, that horribad lily system that SB had which was hot garbage.

- Aero 3 is one of those skills that was designed to be used for both ST and AOE. It's potency was high enough that you'd use it in ST as well. Holy has never had potency remotely close to being able to use it in ST,

And that's completely irrelevant when pointing out the user in question is on the record saying he didn't want AOE abilities to be used in the single-target rotation. He describe Misery as a necessary evil but that he disliked being in the single-target rotation as well. Anyway, it's neither here nor there, I just always think it's interesting when people change their position based on who they're arguing against or what they're arguing for.

[EDIT: For my part, I find it a good design since you have less "dead" buttons that you only use in dungeon trash by allowing them to be used as part of the single-target rotation, thus making less wasted hotbar bloat spots. Aero 3 and Misery working in both is a far better design decision. :EDIT]

- So you're okay with adding a 24s DOT back to the job...

I don't like it, no. But I'm okay with it. I think there are better things to do instead, but it would shut up the people constantly asking for Aero 3 back, so that would already be a positive. And I don't mean that to be snarky, it's just there are so many things people complain about all the time through rose tinted goggles, if all it takes is that to make them content, then I'd take it as an acceptable loss. I still absolutely hate DoTs and will NEVER understand the love affair some people have with them. I'd rather basically anything else, even a 1-2-3 rotation over DoTs. But apparently, THAT'S unacceptable for some reason. So Aero 3 it is, eff it.

...don't look this gifthorse in the mouth.

When I oppose something, you hammer me over it, and when I support something out of exasperation, you hammer me over it, too. Keep doing that long enough and it might get people to thinking you just want to be a contrarian.

You know, it's funny you should say that...

History is a funny thing...

[ty_taurus]

I don't like it, no. But I'm okay with it. I think there are better things to do instead, but it would shut up the people constantly asking for Aero 3 back, so that would already be a positive. And I don't mean that to be snarky, it's just there are so many things people complain about all the time through rose tinted goggles, if all it takes is that to make them content, then I'd take it as an acceptable loss. I still absolutely hate DoTs and will NEVER understand the love affair some people have with them. I'd rather basically anything else, even a 1-2-3 rotation over DoTs. But apparently, THAT'S unacceptable for some reason. So Aero 3 it is, eff it.

Okay, so here's something I genuinely do not understand that I hope someone can explain to me.

I am all about wanting a more varied, yet still modest, selection of offensive spells on healers. I also feel that there was no reason to axe Aero 3 with no compensation, and that the loss of Aero 3 does feel like there is something of a hole in White Mage gameplay; however, why do we collectively continue to talk about returning Aero 3 as if that's the only additional attack spell that could ever possibly fill that gap in White Mage's gameplay? Like, something I would've liked to have seen naturally happen with White Mage and Astrologian, had I not known about the anti-DPS crusade Shadowbringers would've reaped, would've been to see DoTs replaced with something that has a little more personality--something unique for each other healer.

I mean I still don't mind White Mage having 1 DoT to foil against Black Mage's thunder, but I don't think Aero 3 needs to be a 24 second DoT, or even a DoT at all. We can always talk about something else to fill that space instead of just returning Aero 3 as it was.