Zepla: Endwalker is the Worst FFXIV Expansion I have played

[Jeeqbit]

The point being made is really that SE does make a lot of content, it is just designed in a way that you are done with it a lot quicker than many players would like.

They make all these dungeons, FATEs, deep dungeons, variant dungeons, Island Sanctuary and it is content but that doesn't mean it is engaging content to many players and so they could get these bosses, all these mechanics and all these environments they worked so hard on for months and do something with it that makes it more challenging or more engaging over a longer period of time, which is where the arguments for things like Eureka, Bozja, relic grinds, or copying GW open world come in.

[CNitsah]

The point being made is really that SE does make a lot of content, it is just designed in a way that you are done with it a lot quicker than many players would like.

And more than anything else, " a lot quicker that it used to in older expansions". It's mainly that part back we complain about.

[Jojoya]

And more than anything else, " a lot quicker that it used to in older expansions". It's mainly that part back we complain about.

Is part of it content pacing then?

I know they've changed pacing on some of the old content to help with the new player experience. Did some of it subconsciously carry over to current content design when it's not needed there?

I think about crafting and gathering. At the start of Shadowbringers (before the overhaul that was implemented in 5.1), it took me about 4 weeks to get all my crafting/gathering jobs to level cap. It took me a week from when Endwalker early access started to get them to the new level cap.

Was it really necessary to increase the leveling speed not just for old expansion levels but also for the current expansion levels that much?

Same for combat jobs - the numbers squish also included leveling XP changes. Is XP for 80-90 too generious, allowing players to level up jobs so they have less to occupy their time?|t's not a straight one-for-one comparison for me. I only had 4 combat jobs at level cap when Shadowbringers was released. I ended up gaining 350 combat levels then compared to only 210 in EW.

Not a big deal and yet it leaves me with more time to do other things compared to the last expansion. I doubt it's something that affecting most of the posters in this thread. Likely they had all their jobs at 70 (other than the new ones) when Shadowbringers began but it's still something that affects overall longevity.

[Renathras]

I'm perfectly fine with nuking us both. Run out the clock, clean out our post limit. If the thread gets locked, then it gets locked.

My goals are usually to meme, so it's not really a stressor for me. Your goals seem pretty aimlessly stressful. lol

You needn't worry on my account. I generally enjoy conversing with people and exchanging thoughts and ideas. The only thing stressful is when people are incessantly immature and snarky/heckling, but that's less stressful and more just mildly annoying. The nice thing is, it's happened enough I'm mostly just bored of it at this point. That is, it doesn't agitate me, it bores me.

I suppose thanks for clearing up that you want to derail and get the thread locked. Though it makes your accusation against me seem completely toothless considering it's your actual goal.

Is part of it content pacing then?

Maybe it's like the WoW Classic thing: Players are just better than they were a decade ago, so they consume stuff faster that might once have taken days or weeks to work out?

It is kinda weird, if you think about it, though. EW doesn't have Bozja like ShB or Eureka like SB, but it has Orthos (ShB didn't have a Deep Dungeon), Criterion, and Island. In terms of overall content, it has the same Raid, Trial, Ultimate, and Alliance Raid schedule, Tibal quests, relic upgrades (patch releasing the next steps), dungeons, etc of ShB and SB. That is, it has the same general level of CONTENT.

It does seem that the big difference is only that it doesn't have a Eureka/Bozja (as Criterion/Island ain't that), and 2 weeks more per patch...which isn't THAT much. It's not nothing, but it's also not a ton more, and while it is 3-4 months over the expansion as a whole, it's not all at once that way. It's the same general design cadence they've been doing since at least SB and really since HW, but "suddenly" it's "stale". I wouldn't even mind people saying it was bad if they don't, in the same breath, praise past expansions for releasing the same amount of content as if it wasn't.

But then you have the people saying it has less content who also didn't like Eureka/Bozja, despite that being the only real difference...

EDIT:

30 pages since we hit 100 of people caring an awful lot about trying to get Jojoya and Rentharis to change their minds.

As I said, it's almost like the negative posters are rather intolerant of the idea that people can disagree with them about matters of opinion/subjective preferences and have a need for the appearance of universal agreement on negativity.

(And the irony is, if anyone would read my first post in this thread - the small one that takes less than 30 seconds to read - that I've linked to or quoted from something like 5 times and people still can't be bothered; they'd realize I didn't actually disagree with them, despite them trying to act like I have for over 100 pages...)

I thought YouTuber/Streamer opinions didn't matter here because "they're in SEs pocket" n such. Now when one comes out and is saying what some agree with its now worth listening to?
Some things don't change ig.

Basically it's the age old concept of "When this person doesn't agree with me, they don't matter; oh, they agree with me now? They're the most important voice on the planet. Obviously."

[Shurrikhan]

It's the same general design cadence they've been doing since at least SB and really since HW, but "suddenly" it's "stale".

So that design cadence should be considered still "fresh" even after being done for 4 expansion in a row (and having slowed over time)?

Those complaints haven't appeared "suddenly". They've increased pretty linearly with the time spent under those repeated roadmaps.

But then you have the people saying it has less content who also didn't like Eureka/Bozja, despite that being the only real difference...

This bit, though, I'll agree can be a bit of a headscratcher... if the opinion is given only per one's own (self-)interests.

It the repeatable content from before wasn't one's cup of tea before, than the content of value to that person hasn't changed by losing it, though they can still miss the friends who now play only per patch release because there's no content for them, either, now.

[Renathras]

So that design cadence should be considered still "fresh" even after being done for 4 expansion in a row (and having slowed over time)?

Those complaints haven't appeared "suddenly". They've increased pretty linearly with the time spent under those repeated roadmaps.

No.

My complaint is more it's suddenly a problem when it hasn't been before AND that people point to the before as bastions of content. EW is effectively ShB 2.0, yet many praised ShB and condemn EW. For having roughly the same amount of content. And highly praise SB. For having roughly the same amount of content.

If they were condemning ShB and SB, that would make more sense.

The more nuanced claims talk about repeatable content...but that's really JUST Eureka/Bozja, and maybe Isghard Restoration (though that wasn't exactly repeatable, it was more just "big event"), and in some cases, by users who have said they don't like Eureka/Bozja content, in which case, what DID ShB have for them that EW does not? A REALLY nuanced claim would note the longer patch cycle, but not many (any? other than me, that is) people seem to mention that.

It seems more like general dissatisfaction, not that the game/Devs are giving them less. People wanting more and being annoyed with being given the same amount and wrongly calling it less when it simply wasn't more.

[Shurrikhan]

My complaint is more it's suddenly a problem when it hasn't been before AND that people point to the before as bastions of content. EW is effectively ShB 2.0, yet many praised ShB and condemn EW. For having roughly the same amount of content. And highly praise SB. For having roughly the same amount of content.

If they were condemning ShB and SB, that would make more sense.

But it hasn't been treated as a "sudden" problem in terms of being novel in its type, only in its extent. It's more a 'straw that breaks the camel's back' situation, not a complaint over straw itself.

You'll find complaints about "overly safe" or "unambitious" roadmapping as far back as Stormblood.

[Rolder50]

No.

My complaint is more it's suddenly a problem when it hasn't been before AND that people point to the before as bastions of content. EW is effectively ShB 2.0, yet many praised ShB and condemn EW. For having roughly the same amount of content. And highly praise SB. For having roughly the same amount of content.

I have to wonder what world you are living in to say that ShB and EW have "roughly the same amount of content"

They have roughly same amount of end game raid content sure since that formula never changes, but everything below that has suffered immensely. If you try to tell me that deep dungeon and variant is equivalent to Bozja (which had open world zones, a raid with a savage version, and two larger scale raids, mind) I will laugh.

[Zairava]

No.

My complaint is more it's suddenly a problem when it hasn't been before AND that people point to the before as bastions of content. EW is effectively ShB 2.0, yet many praised ShB and condemn EW. For having roughly the same amount of content. And highly praise SB. For having roughly the same amount of content.

If they were condemning ShB and SB, that would make more sense.

The more nuanced claims talk about repeatable content...but that's really JUST Eureka/Bozja, and maybe Isghard Restoration (though that wasn't exactly repeatable, it was more just "big event"), and in some cases, by users who have said they don't like Eureka/Bozja content, in which case, what DID ShB have for them that EW does not? A REALLY nuanced claim would note the longer patch cycle, but not many (any? other than me, that is) people seem to mention that.

It seems more like general dissatisfaction, not that the game/Devs are giving them less. People wanting more and being annoyed with being given the same amount and wrongly calling it less when it simply wasn't more.

This post..baffles me. We have stated on and on, or at least I have, that it isn't the amount, it's that they don't have incentive to keep doing. There isn't any real meat to the content they have released in the patches. It's there, but there's nothing to chew and take in

I actually had a relic grind in Stormblood and Shadowbringers, and they were both tied to field content, relatively midcore and something I can always go back to and get some form of reward with friends to boot. Not having that really killed this expansion for me. If I had to run Criterion (the "EX" one, not Savage) as a way to get my relics, I would have infinitely more mileage to run it than now.

Even for the people who don't like field content like Eureka/Bozja, not having repeatable content is a valid complaint.

[Berkin]

No.

The more nuanced claims talk about repeatable content...but that's really JUST Eureka/Bozja, and maybe Isghard Restoration (though that wasn't exactly repeatable, it was more just "big event"), and in some cases, by users who have said they don't like Eureka/Bozja content, in which case, what DID ShB have for them that EW does not? A REALLY nuanced claim would note the longer patch cycle, but not many (any? other than me, that is) people seem to mention that.

It seems more like general dissatisfaction, not that the game/Devs are giving them less. People wanting more and being annoyed with being given the same amount and wrongly calling it less when it simply wasn't more.

Talking about exploratory content as "just Eureka/Bozja" sounds a little disingenuous when considering just how big that kind of content really was. There's really no single instance of content to replace it when so much goes into it. (DRS is still the most fun I've had in this game and it was just one instance inside Bozja).

Restoration was actually something to work towards with every patch too, with no real replacement to it besides IS, which was supposed to be the replacement to exploratory content already.