Zepla: Endwalker is the Worst FFXIV Expansion I have played

[Blossoming]

Its funny they liked mr happy's video just because he worded the same criticism slightly different then zepla and felt harassed and bullied by zepla because she was "too animated" with her hand movements and she looked angry with her facial expressions.

Yeah all that FEMALE RAGE!

[MintnHoney]

We also already had the patch cycle shown to us for this expansion at https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post5861033

But wait! What if that was all just a trick?!
They could have lied to us in order to make us think that they were following their normal structure, as per usual, but the true reason that they increased the time between patches was actually so they could overwork themselves even more to make a surprise .6 patch with god-knows-how-much in it. The Nintendo Direct where YoshiP discusses this is and cries for our sins will surely be announced any day now, if you just believe hard enough.

Yeah all that FEMALE RAGE!

Oh, my favorite kind.

[Supersnow845]

HW didn’t have enough content. Nobody denies that, 3.1 is still the worst non legacy patch in the game despite the EW patches giving it a run for its money, gordias was hot garbage, diadem 1.0 and 2.0 were messy at best (280ilvl RNG weapons) downright annoying at worst (even for me who is probably field contents biggest fanboy)

however HW did have diadem, It had a unique trial story, it had the complex jobs people praise (even if the old system had clunk like CD’s not resetting) and gave birth to most of the content we associate with expansions now…….and it was also their first expansion after they clawed the game back to life with the highly flawed ARR, meanwhile EW is the 4th expansion and has regressed in content, I don’t think it’s rose coloured glasses to say HW was better than EW

Regardless that wasn’t really the point; the point was the zepla and mr happy had the same feedback as to what’s wrong with EW (even if Mr happy ultimately said HW was worse) but you seem to have interpreted that feedback quite differently based on how the streamer acted in the video

Also on the point of “even if every forum user was aligned with the EW bad narrative it’s still a tiny minority” that implies everyone not on the forums is content with the state of the game, this comes back to Val’s common attitude, the “my opinion is the default unless proven otherwise” which you are using here, the “if I don’t see someone actively disagreeing with me I’m gonna assume by default they agree with me”, just as you like to point out we don’t know if we are the majority you have no idea if you are the majority either, but we do know is that the vast majority of the streamers agree with us and that speaks a lot considering their cumulative knowledge and pull in the community

[CStrife912]

You are just being purposely obtuse at this point. Either way, I'm done speaking to you now. Good day.

I get what you were going for here and stormy was being obtuse and really missing the mark which is rare for them.

Anyway Vel my man there will be no 6.6… there will likely be nothing between January and June/July and that will be following their normal .5 to expansion trends. The only thing here is that there looks to be barely anything to sustain long term play for it outside of the odd event which doesn’t hold long. Personally Il be fine I’ve got so much to play and hey FF7 part 2 hopefully early next year like I’m golden :P either way I won’t say the cringey wording of hyper copium or whatever but it’s not healthy to believe that mindset.

[RitsukoSonoda]

Also on the point of “even if every forum user was aligned with the EW bad narrative it’s still a tiny minority” that implies everyone not on the forums is content with the state of the game, this comes back to Val’s common attitude, the “my opinion is the default unless proven otherwise” which you are using here, the “if I don’t see someone actively disagreeing with me I’m gonna assume by default they agree with me”, just as you like to point out we don’t know if we are the majority you have no idea if you are the majority either, but we do know is that the vast majority of the streamers agree with us and that speaks a lot considering their cumulative knowledge and pull in the community

Honestly. I'd say the only assumption that can be made is that for the majority of the paying players the pros at least outweigh the cons resulting in them sticking with the game and continuing to pay the monthly subscription. Sure you have the outliers like certain people on the forum that pay their sub and make alts constantly just to spam all over this forum how much they hate the game, why x other game is better, why this game is doomed, etc. There's also those that might have stopped playing and forgotten they have a monthly sub. And also those that are only sticking around to socialize with the friends they made in game.

However, IMO Dawntrail I feel is going to be the next real make or break point for this game. The reason I feel this way is because while the expansions we had up till now progressed a long ongoing storyline, that primary story reached a conclusion in Endwalker. This essentially means that the story for Dawntrail will either be a one off thing limited to that expansion cycle or the start of a new saga. As such it doesn't have that extra pull previous expansions had where people were invested in the story and wanted to see the next chapter of it similar to manga, novels, movies, etc... It's going to have to do more to stand on its own. If they double down and continue pushing the things that have been creating most of the negative feedback, I don't think visual overhauls and a few QoL improvements are going to be enough to keep it afloat.

[Renathras]

HW didn’t have enough content. Nobody denies that...

I will note there are some quibbles (e.g. not everyone praises the HW era Jobs; I think it was his video last week or one of the retrospective videos where Happy pointed out how bad it was back then and all the complaints people had at the time, not to mention people ALSO hated Diadem at the time and relatively [key word] few players actually ever set foot in it). So most of those excuses don't really help.

HW was the worst expansion in terms of content. EW is middling.

Here's the thing: That's not a salvation statement. "middling" isn't good. Again, "it's possible to agree with someone 90% but still note the 10% that you disagree with" kind of applies. A thing being middling isn't a defense. The point is that a lot of the people saying EW is the worst thing ever are speaking in hyperbole. Did you not say yourself some pages back the following?

I think you’ll struggle to find people who genuinely call you a bootlicker for saying “I can acknowledge some problems but think they are overblown and still like the game for XYZ reason”.

EW doesn't have to be the worst expansion, nor do you need to defend HW. It's entirely fine to say "EW isn't the worst expansion...but there are some changes that should be made in the future to make sure other expansions are better".

That's an entirely healthy and rational position to hold.

.

Further, I didn't "interpret that feedback quite differently".

ALL I said of Zepla's point was that it seemed based on emotion and animosity. I didn't say she was wrong. I even made a long post (that apparently no one forkin' read) about my own issues with the game, that dovetail with her own. I didn't say her perspective was invalid or completely wrong. "Why did you mention it, then?!" BECAUSE I ALWAYS CALL OUT people who, instead of offering respectful critique, attack other players or the playerbase. ALWAYS. Every time I see it I do it BECAUSE I FEEL IT IS WRONG. It's why I tell you people all the time (hell, see my sig!) to not engage in hyperbole and attacks on players. Offer your critique with respect and we can have discussions on it and probably find points of agreement. If someone calls you names then says "So now let's have a productive discussion", you are probably going to have a chip on your shoulder against them, right? That's pretty normal because it's pretty Human.

I didn't give Happy's argument more credence and Zepla's less. I noted Happy's is neutral and seems respectful, measured, and informed. Because he DIDN'T feel the need to go off like Zepla did, which does make her argument weaker by effect. But it doesn't make her argument WRONG. I was pointing out Happy is more measured and probably more accurate, and where it agrees with Zepla's is probably a pretty good starting point.

As for the latter point: No, Titanalt was trying to say the other person was in a minority with no evidence. We know literally nothing about the people who are not posting on the forums, so we can't make such conclusions. You can't claim them as in agreement with you. Note that I didn't claim they were in disagreement. I just said the numbers that WE KNOW are a very small sample size. I made no further conclusions; you did. I didn't, in fact, use the attitude "if I don't see someone actively disagreeing with me I'm gonna assume by default they agree with me". That was the position Titanalt used.

Maybe you should be telling Phoenix she's wrong. You won't. We both know you won't, because Titan is agreeing with you/"on your side", so you aren't going to call him out for doing the literal thing you're attacking me for. And the irony is, I didn't even do it, lol!

"just as you like to point out we don't know if we are the majority you have no idea if you are the majority either" THAT IS LITERALLY WHAT I SAID, my dude!

This is what I get so tired of here - not only people inventing things I never said to get mad at me over, but also ignoring things I OUTRIGHT DID SAY and trying to "correct" me by...stating the very thing I already said as if it was a rebuke when it was literally my own argument/stated position.

The ONLY conclusion I stated is that no one is alone - whether they ENJOYED or HATED Endwalker - as there are so many players, the statistical odds of being THE ONLY PERSON who loved or hated it is stupidly nonexistently low, and we know many people loved it because EVEN HERE people have posted saying so, and this place is toxic towards people offering positive views of the game, as Bonoki pointed out:

These forums are so pro criticism that you cannot argue against the criticism. You either agree with the criticism or you get dog piled on. I wish more people would call out the trolls and encourage civil discussion instead of having this whole, you are either with us or against us mentality on every single topic. I'm not afraid to come on these forums and say I dislike something with the game. I am afraid to come on these forums and say that I actually like something in the game though.

Hell, it's even worse than she said: I'm literally AGREEING WITH THE CRITICISM and still being dogpiled on because I don't AGREE WITH IT ENOUGH and have taken "too long" to agree with it (never mind I've been voicing these same complaints for months/years in some cases), lol

EDIT:

Honestly. I'd say the only assumption that can be made is that for the majority of the paying players the pros at least outweigh the cons resulting in them sticking with the game and continuing to pay the monthly subscription.

Yes, very likely this. But I didn't even say that in the post he replied to.

That said, agree with this post overall. One reason a lot of people left WoW after Legion was they felt the story was more or less tied up and in a good place. That could very easily happen with FFXIV if they don't have something to catch people off the high of the Hyd/Zod saga coming to a close.

[Supersnow845]

Ren if you don’t want people to misinterpret what you said then don’t make every post you make 10285829103@581&275019185 words long starting with a sweeping statement that is only tangentially related to your point then clarify it 7 paragraphs later and then get annoyed when people only really care to read your opening statement

Same as when you reply to 61 people at the same time and then get annoyed when person 34 only reads your reply to person 34 and they didn’t notice you made a clarifying statement in your reply to person 56

As for your seeming inability to realise people are going to reach a logical conclusion on based on what you imply that’s someone that I’ve just accepted at this point, if you say A leads to B and B leads to C don’t be surprised when people assume from that that C leads to D because you didn’t say it outright

[VelKallor]

I get what you were going for here and stormy was being obtuse and really missing the mark which is rare for them.

Anyway Vel my man there will be no 6.6… there will likely be nothing between January and June/July and that will be following their normal .5 to expansion trends. The only thing here is that there looks to be barely anything to sustain long term play for it outside of the odd event which doesn’t hold long. Personally Il be fine I’ve got so much to play and hey FF7 part 2 hopefully early next year like I’m golden :P either way I won’t say the cringey wording of hyper copium or whatever but it’s not healthy to believe that mindset.

Noted. You are probably right.

Ive looked at the patch cycle again, and yeah...it just seems that a 5 month content delay is a more ouch they HAVE to be aware of.

Note: this comment from a friend on that video:

"Zeplas video was all about the bad but she didn’t comment on that no expansion had as much QoL or improvements to base game making it a better experience for new players....she wrote the title as worst expansion but when talking she didn’t say those words she talked about aspects she didn’t like, but never said the words outright "

The point about QoL IS valid and one she didnt address.

Look I like Zepla, she can be funny. I did and do feel sorry for her having to get the hell out of a warzone, that had to be an absolute nightmare. But at the same time, she had her own points to make and maybe this was more to garner her viewers attention after a long break.

[Renathras]

Ren if you don’t want people to misinterpret what you said then don’t make every post you make 10285829103@581&275019185 words long ...

I DON'T. People still get it wrong. Note that my first post here was this one: https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post6333553

This is a canard, because even when I make short posts, people do the same thing. And WORSE, since because I don't take pains to explain my position in detail, they do what you did and simply ASSUME I meant things I didn't. Hell, you literally said so here. You call it "a logical conclusion based on what you imply", EXCEPT I DIDN'T imply anything. YOU decided I was implying something, and instead of bothering to ask me, you attacked me for it, when not only did I not say it, I didn't even imply it. There is no logic from "I don't like someone attacking people - a statement I say all the time" meaning "...therefore, I completely disagree and disregard everything she's saying as illegitimate". I hold the position that attacking people is bad so often, I've even put it in my sig for crying out loud.

The problem is you BELIEVING I'm implying something, and even when I outright tell you I didn't, either insisting I did (meaning you think you know my mind better than I do) or that it's totally logical to assume that (when it totally isn't given my own past statements and clarifying ones). To continue to attack the position WELL AFTER I've clarified my meaning is just you WANTING to stick on that, not it being logical. There's nothing logical about insisting on continuing to hammer someone on something you thought they said well after they've clarified to you they didn't say, imply, or mean it.

So no, this isn't a defense of the bad behavior here, since short posts or long get the same result, and the short ones get hammered even more. And no, it's not "how I say it", since even my posts that are in agreement with people are attacked, and it doesn't matter how I say it, as I've tried a number of different ways.

Likewise the "reply to 61 people". I often reply to just one, and they still can't be arsed to read it.

So no, your defenses of bad behavior don't work, and you shouldn't be defending such behavior in the first place.

But I'm uninterested in a tit-for-tat with you or another derail over it.

[Rolder50]

Noted. You are probably right.

Ive looked at the patch cycle again, and yeah...it just seems that a 5 month content delay is a more ouch they HAVE to be aware of.

Note: this comment from a friend on that video:

"Zeplas video was all about the bad but she didn’t comment on that no expansion had as much QoL or improvements to base game making it a better experience for new players....she wrote the title as worst expansion but when talking she didn’t say those words she talked about aspects she didn’t like, but never said the words outright "

The point about QoL IS valid and one she didnt address.

Look I like Zepla, she can be funny. I did and do feel sorry for her having to get the hell out of a warzone, that had to be an absolute nightmare. But at the same time, she had her own points to make and maybe this was more to garner her viewers attention after a long break.

At the end of the day, Zepla is a vet and that will shape her opinion. All the new player and trust stuff has zero impact on people who are caught up with the main story quest. Plus she is a PC player so there is a good chance she already has these QOL features