Zepla: Endwalker is the Worst FFXIV Expansion I have played

[Lauront]

Taking a break/going to play other games can have the unintended (?) side-effect that the person comes back with a clearer perspective on what the game could be doing differently/better, which of course they will be quickly told is too hard to do and so on. So it may even lead them to become more critical of it.

As to whether the game will 'never' change or not, certainly a possibility, but I see no reason why it should stop someone from offering their feedback and giving the devs an opportunity to consider it. And she's a streamer with a fairly large audience so there's a chance her complaints will actually get through. From there it's up to them what to do with it.

I wouldn't say she is pushing us towards WoW by any stretch. I think she is wanting to push us back towards ShB and SB with repeatable content and being able to have goals and reasons to log in and play the game when you want to play the game. She even uses an interview between Preach and Ian (WoW game director) where Ian specifically talks about wanting to create a game where people want to log in and play the game because that is what they want to do, not create a game where you feel obligated to log on because if you don't you start falling behind which I think is what all games like this should be striving towards.

Yeah, she put WoW on the side of the more 'extreme' end of being on a treadmill in MMOs, which I don't really think it belongs on, since the game does attempt to cater to a broad spectrum of player levels of engagement. Perhaps she's not tried games like Lost Ark. But either way nothing she said can be construed as pushing people to play WoW.

[Musashidon]

Genuine question if you are arguing in good faith what is the point you are willing to admit that this may in fact be a legit problem the game is facing outside of yoshi stating in the next live letter the game is actively failing

well with no real way to know how well the game is doing it is very hard to prove the game is doing bad or even good besides with something the developers say. that being said there is that one person who does a scan and a small study of people who did this or that to find out a small bit of who could have been active at this point or that but i havent seen that like i normally do.

a counter question is at what point will the naysayers for the game admit the player base may be happy with the game and its not causing any issues for a majority of the players?

[Amenara]

a counter question is at what point will the naysayers for the game admit the player base may be happy with the game and its not causing any issues for a majority of the players?

I am not a fan of sweeping generalizations for any game's playerbase as no one can really know. I agree that there are probably a not insignificant number of players that are very happy with what they have now and have no issues at all. My thought process with it is, if they are already happy with what they have, why shouldn't we be asking for some more so that the game can continue to appeal to those already happy but now also appeal more broadly to those players who do want more content to do. We already know SE is probably bringing back Exploratory content in DT while continuing what we added in EW. They are looking at maybe doing another Deep Dungeon as well as looking at adding a completely new battle content. I think we know they can do it and that is why we push for it.

[Ivtrix]

Oh yes

Equating WOD with Endwalker is the most hilarous take there can ever be. The two are nothing alike in any sense. Saying that its fine to take breaks in WOW when the game is an endless series of chores like Torghast to stay ahead of the player power curve, and has been so for YEARS?

As someone who extensively played WoD, yes, EW is very similar to the expansion and it makes a lot of people uncomfortable that it’s the truth. If you are someone who is up to date, there is no content in EW with any repeatability value like we saw in SB or SHB. There is nothing like eureka or bozja to grind. Both expansions have a very similar vibe: if you don’t raid, there isn’t much to do that the expansion itself provides.

I personally think that saying someone can go back and explore previous expansion content is a bit of a cop out, it’s not applicable to everyone. I finished eureka. I finished bozja (for the most part, havnt done the dalriada), so while it works for new players who havnt explored everything the expansions have to offer, it’s not a one size fits all solution.

[Musashidon]

I am not a fan of sweeping generalizations for any game's playerbase as no one can really know.

same, my overall point was the same question can be asked to someone doomsaying or naysaying the game.

i am always happy for new and more content a lot of idea's are cool. but prefacing your idea with do this or your game is going to die eventually is really only going to get you venom. its like a backhanded compliment are people really suppose to be happy with what you suggested if you also slap them?

[Ivtrix]

"People like you"?

Do you even read before you post? Such a rude, offensive individual that you are.

My advice is that you should just leave FF14 if you're that dissatisfied over it as the game will not bend over to your whims when you're the severe minority and are spiteful over it.

This dismissive passive aggressive take on any criticism of the game is literally the epitome of “GCBTW” and why people backhandedly scoff at the community in this game.

I don’t understand why some people are so aggressively complacent that SE and CBU3 are so infallible that we must consume everything they create as gods gift to MMOs and be happy that is what we get.

Most people complaining agree with you that the game is at least some level of fun at its core. That doesn’t make the game immune from criticism especially when people will take the time to put criticism into a more coherent thought than “GAME SUCK”. Well thought out and more in depth criticisms like Zeplas (can be from anyone, not just big content creators) should be welcomed into the community. The player base should never become complacent with the state of the game.

It’s ironic that this critical feedback got us from 1.0 to 2.0 and now some people seem like we are never allowed to complain about the state of the game ever again. It’s also wildly annoying too.

[SaberMaxwell]

I wouldn't say she is pushing us towards WoW by any stretch. I think she is wanting to push us back towards ShB and SB with repeatable content and being able to have goals and reasons to log in and play the game when you want to play the game. She even uses an interview between Preach and Ian (WoW game director) where Ian specifically talks about wanting to create a game where people want to log in and play the game because that is what they want to do, not create a game where you feel obligated to log on because if you don't you start falling behind which I think is what all games like this should be striving towards.

Its funny because she explicitly says she doesn't want WoW tier grinds, just that there's a healthy middle ground to strike between WoW's approach (too much grind) and Endwalker's approach of "no real reason to log in."

Stormblood really was the zenith of this game content-wise. I wish I could go back and appreciate it again.

[Yushees]

Based Zepla. Finally someone that doesn't say the game is "perfect" like most people doing RP / afking in Limsa

[Jeeqbit]

well with no real way to know how well the game is doing it is very hard to prove the game is doing bad or even good

I disagree, because we as players can gather a huge amount of statistics. We can analyze the lodestone like Lucky Bancho or the census website does, we can look at the Steam data, do polls, gather statistics on number of PFs at certain times, number of people in certain zones, number of sprouts at certain times, how often NN is at max capacity, the world status page shows us whether SE considers it congested. We have a lot of "fan websites" that have statistics they either do publish or could publish, as well as many large discord servers that have Server Insights available to them that will show them a lot of the same data SE can see about endgame player habits (spoiler: there is a spike when there is a patch).

But statistics are only as good as how you interpret them and two people can often use the same statistic to paint a completely different picture depending on their perspective of how the statistic came to be. That goes for developers too. SE could see the statistics looking good on the surface and it's possible they don't delve deep enough into them to see a problem somewhere.

The one thing we do know is that the Lucky Bancho statistics are pretty good right now and have been throughout Endwalker. Better than in prior expansions beside the WoW exodus moment in the months before Endwalker. If there is something deeper in the statistics that is a problem, it's ultimately not yet manifested in an overall decline of players back to, say, Heavensward levels, by those stats and it's not even declined below 1 million by those stats yet.

a counter question is at what point will the naysayers for the game admit the player base may be happy with the game and its not causing any issues for a majority of the players?

Never. I've played enough MMORPGs to know that the dissastisfied players will never be satisfied whatever the developers do. Some people focus on positives and some people focus on negatives. It's just how people are.

That isn't to say that feedback isn't valuable, or that the developers couldn't make things better, but once they have, you can be sure that people will still be here criticizing x, y or z thing that personally upsets or annoys them.

Great community btw, too bad he seems to have infinite accounts so you dont get your echo chamber of toxic positivity, cry about it.

Indeed, he seems to have infinite accounts. Some of them discuss themselves in the third person too.

[Musashidon]

I disagree, because we as players can gather a huge amount of statistics. We can analyze the lodestone like Lucky Bancho or the census website does.

thank you i couldnt remember who they were with the population estimates. also players will never take them as hard proof of doing well or poorly its just nice having a reference of seeing this is potentially the direction the game is heading in aka the numbers going up or doing for things depending on the patch.