Zepla: Endwalker is the Worst FFXIV Expansion I have played

[Vahlnir]

I think that's a rather strange stance to take. She's an entertainer first and foremost, so naturally she's going to be theatrical when gesturing and showcasing expressions. Though there's also individuals who are simply animated and excitable as part of their natural personality.

You can go back and look at her earlier videos when she was less critical towards the game to see similar mannerisms at play.

Yeah. I don't think she has "lost it". How she comes across to me is frustrated. Most people aren't calm, cool and collected when they are frustrated past a certain point.

[Renathras]

I think that's a rather strange and unfair stance to take. She's an entertainer first and foremost, so naturally she's going to be theatrical when gesturing and showcasing expressions. Though there's also individuals who are simply animated and excitable as part of their natural personality.

You can go back and look at her earlier videos when she was less critical towards the game to see similar mannerisms at play.

That specific tone and facial expressions - go watch the segment just before 30 mins; that's an angry face, not the face of someone being theatrical for the sake of it - make me think there's deep seated, and misguided, anger there. As people here note all the time when the negative nancies insist everyone who still likes the game is a shill worshiping Yoshi P: People liking the game aren't shills, nor are they saying no criticism at all is allowed or the like. They point out, as I often do, that insults aren't criticism, and insulting the devs and especially other players isn't critique under any definition.

Yeah. I don't think she has "lost it". How she comes across to me is frustrated. Most people aren't calm, cool and collected when they are frustrated past a certain point.

I do agree she comes across as frustrated, but that tone and attitude is wrong, no matter who does it. Better to explain what you dislike and make a plea to change, and acknowledge those that don't agree with you as having valid points of view as well while suggesting compromises. Attacking them with that level of venom ain't it.

EDIT: Post limit for the day, so just leaving this here for now:

If anything, people are proving her point about the community and criticism in real time.

But people AREN'T, that's the point.

Where did I say her criticisms were invalid? I didn't.
Where did I say she was demanding insane grinds - the thing she's insisting anyone who disagrees with her is doing? I didn't.

So no, she's not having her point proven in real time. Hell, I've been criticizing the lack of a Eureka/Bozja this entire expansion. I just don't get angry with and accuse people of making caricature arguments. I haven't said, of anyone who likes there not being a Eureka/Bozja "Well! You just accuse anything that isn't MSQ of being a terrible GRIND!", now do I? Because that is generally not what people do.

My issue has been consistent, and my issue with criticism has as well: If you are attacking other players - and yes, making caricatures to preempt people from offering views countering your own is doing so - you aren't critiquing the game. That's where I draw the line.

I wasn't calling her unhinged, I was saying she seems to be angry. I've watched Zepla on and off for years. She's not normally like that. The only other time I've seen her at all like that was talking about the Ukraine war.

There's a point where one goes from "I like this thing but want some changes (the state I'm in, btw)" to "I'm really frustrated with this game but want to stay with it and push for change" to "I'm REALLY frustrated with the state of things and lashing out at other people (this is the point you should probably have taken a break by now, but if you haven't, is the time to do so)" to "I honestly hate everything about this game and am only staying subbed for a house and anyone who disagrees is a shill white knight who worships Yoshi P as their personal god and simps for Y'Shtola art (a position, sadly, that more than a few have gotten to)".

Not everyone's as rational as I am, so many people have more bleed through between 2 and 3, but specifically what sets me off is when people start attacking players. If you have critiques, make them. Don't try to cut off any rebuttals by insisting anyone who would offer one is <insert caricature>. Ginger Prime did this when he took a break from FFXIV, and it set a lot of people off, too. He eventually seemed to realize it was a bad thing and backed off of doing so, at which point his positions were much more amenable to people.

I'm gonna have to disagree with you there. This is exactly the level of frustration the devs need to hear. It also makes a bit of a statement coming from one of SE's biggest yes-people.

No, attacking other players is not a valid outlet for frustration.

"Bullying is exactly what the school needs to see to get administrators to accept the children need changes" is not an acceptable take. Hurting or attacking innocent people to get your point across is wrong. Zepla has a huge megaphone. She could make her critiques without badmouthing people and be listened to. The badmouthing alienated half the audience outright, so is bad for getting listened to (the people agreeing with her are ones not alienated by it as they often engage in it themselves...), but that aside, it's unjust to attack the innocent for the crimes of the guilty. Moreover, to preemptively attack people for something you imagined they might do but that they haven't even done.

[Vahlnir]

I do agree she comes across as frustrated, but that tone and attitude is wrong, no matter who does it. Better to explain what you dislike and make a plea to change, and acknowledge those that don't agree with you as having valid points of view as well while suggesting compromises. Attacking them with that level of venom ain't it.

I'm gonna have to disagree with you there. This is exactly the level of frustration the devs need to hear. It also makes a bit of a statement coming from one of SE's biggest yes-people.

[Nebelheim]

That specific tone and facial expressions - go watch the segment just before 30 mins; that's an angry face, not the face of someone being theatrical for the sake of it - make me think there's deep seated, and misguided, anger there. As people here note all the time when the negative nancies insist everyone who still likes the game is a shill worshiping Yoshi P: People liking the game aren't shills, nor are they saying no criticism at all is allowed or the like. They point out, as I often do, that insults aren't criticism, and insulting the devs and especially other players isn't critique under any definition.



I do agree she comes across as frustrated, but that tone and attitude is wrong, no matter who does it. Better to explain what you dislike and make a plea to change, and acknowledge those that don't agree with you as having valid points of view as well while suggesting compromises. Attacking them with that level of venom ain't it.

In what way did zepla attack people though. she mentioned that you can't say any criticism without someone defending the game and taking it as a personal attack which is true. You can provide constructive criticism as nicely as possible and get hit with "just quit" or "unsub from the game if you don't like certain things". I don't know why anyone feels personally attacked by her video or that she is calling people out who enjoy the game.

[Vahlnir]

In what way did zepla attack people though. she mentioned that you can't say any criticism without someone defending the game and taking it as a personal attack which is true. You can provide constructive criticism as nicely as possible and get hit with "just quit" or "unsub from the game if you don't like certain things". I don't know why anyone feels personally attacked by her video or that she is calling people out who enjoy the game.

If anything, people are proving her point about the community and criticism in real time.

[Nebelheim]

If anything, people are proving her point about the community and criticism in real time.

I agree i just find it weird people also feel personally attacked from her tone and hand movements because she isn't being her usual overly happy self.

[Lauront]

If anything, people are proving her point about the community and criticism in real time.

Is it any wonder streamers tend to be hesitant to criticise the game?

[Theodric]

That specific tone and facial expressions - go watch the segment just before 30 mins; that's an angry face, not the face of someone being theatrical for the sake of it - make me think there's deep seated, and misguided, anger there. As people here note all the time when the negative nancies insist everyone who still likes the game is a shill worshiping Yoshi P: People liking the game aren't shills, nor are they saying no criticism at all is allowed or the like. They point out, as I often do, that insults aren't criticism, and insulting the devs and especially other players isn't critique under any definition.

Each to their own, though I don't believe it's that deep. Though I believe another poster recently commented on the habit of certain posters attempting to offer a psychoanalysis in order to deflect away from any points raised by anyone even remotely critical of the game as a method of not so subtly implying that they're unhinged, hysterical and/or in need of intervention.

I don't think there's much point in analysing the tone and, uh, facial expressions of the likes of Zepla. For starters, this is a game with players from many different backgrounds, cultures, personality types and belief systems. Not everyone is going to be everybody's particular cup of tea - and that's absolutely fine.

There's individuals on this forum who have admitted to loathing my posts because I'm European and fairly to the point. I'm certainly not going to change how I type or express myself to please their ilk, though. I won't claim to speak for Zepla, though I wouldn't be surprised if she took a similar stance and found herself in a position where she isn't overly concerned about meeting the ever shifting standards of certain posters on the game's official forum.

[Vahlnir]

No, attacking other players is not a valid outlet for frustration.

"Bullying is exactly what the school needs to see to get administrators to accept the children need changes" is not an acceptable take. Hurting or attacking innocent people to get your point across is wrong. Zepla has a huge megaphone. She could make her critiques without badmouthing people and be listened to. The badmouthing alienated half the audience outright, so is bad for getting listened to (the people agreeing with her are ones not alienated by it as they often engage in it themselves...), but that aside, it's unjust to attack the innocent for the crimes of the guilty. Moreover, to preemptively attack people for something you imagined they might do but that they haven't even done.

If you are viewing this as some sort of personal attack, I don't know what to say, other than I'm not surprised. She's not bullying anyone. Not the first time I've seen this happen, and not just from you either. Again, she is being proven right. It's about time someone with influence within the FF XIV community took a stand. I just wish it had happened sooner.

[Nebelheim]

If you are viewing this as some sort of personal attack, I don't know what to say, other than I'm not surprised. She's not bullying anyone. Not the first time I've seen this happen, and not just from you either. Again, she is being proven right. It's about time someone with influence within the FF XIV community took a stand. I just wish it had happened sooner.

They seem to consider everything as a personal attack recently in various threads. Its not the first time think people are attacking/harrassing them.