Did Just our Star(planet) get sundered or the whole universe?

[Enphilistor]

I would like to thank you all for your comments, and make the following replies:

I do not think that Hydaelyn created the moon. I believe the Ascians were already using it to house Zodiac, who was already complete before the sundering. Hydaelyn sundered the moon as well as the planet, and after the sundering and installing Zodiark's seal, probably on all reflections, but only installed the Lopperits and the Watcher on the moon of the source, as far as we know. I do not think it was a bug showing the moon in the Unsundered Elpis.

But my point it that we do know the universe can be seen by both the first and the source, and there were many space faring races some of them who came to the source(Midgardsiormr, Omega. the Mandervelians) and at least 1 on the first( Puppets). And the stars in the sky were a big issue in the story on the first. So if the universe was NOT sundered, then the stars are the same ones seen on the souce for all reflections. And if ships were built on the 1st, or the second, etc, up to the 13th, to leave the sundered area of space around our star, they should be able to meet us up there beyond the moon. If Midgardsiormr could detect the sundering as he neared the star other races could also, such as the puppets. I wonder why they would have chosen to go to the first..and not the source...and why meteion's song did not affect them. Perhaps other alien races have indeed landed in the other reflections and we just don't know them yet.

But regardless, if other races can get into the reflections, the people in them should be able to fly out into the common area of space and meet us, or go back to other reflections or back to thier original one, just like we can to Ultima thule...although having the same ship in both places is also sort of odd too. Perhaps Hydaelyn did that to actually prevent the flight of the ship back due to the possibility of slipping into the other reflections.

[Alleluia]

I figure the Shards share the same physical space as the Source, but are out of phase dimensionally.
So they see the same night sky as the Source does, but I think some weird stuff might happen if they actually tried to travel out into space.

This is how I see it, too. There's a localized multiverse envelope around the planet and its moon, where there are 14 versions of that section of space in the same spot, but on different atomic vibrational frequencies; ie they're "out of phase" with one another. They all see the same light from outside the envelope (due to some property of the envelope itself),but if people not on the same frequency as the stuff outside tries to move out of the envelope, there'd be problems.

Either they just couldn't do it without breaking the envelope; or they could, but they'd end up in the Source's space, with no simple way to get back to their shard. Or maybe they'd end up in real space, but still out of phase, and therefore invisible and intangible. And logically that'd require everything out of phase from their pov to be invisible/intangible to them, too. At least they might be able to see and return to their shard in that scenario, though.

But yeah, I can only imagine the weird issues other shard civilizations have dealt with if they're advanced enough for spaceflight, like Allag or Sharlayan.

[Lady_Silvermoon]

I would like to thank you all for your comments, and make the following replies:

I do not think that Hydaelyn created the moon. I believe the Ascians were already using it to house Zodiac, who was already complete before the sundering. Hydaelyn sundered the moon as well as the planet, and after the sundering and installing Zodiark's seal, probably on all reflections, but only installed the Lopperits and the Watcher on the moon of the source, as far as we know. I do not think it was a bug showing the moon in the Unsundered Elpis.

But my point it that we do know the universe can be seen by both the first and the source, and there were many space faring races some of them who came to the source(Midgardsiormr, Omega. the Mandervelians) and at least 1 on the first( Puppets). And the stars in the sky were a big issue in the story on the first. So if the universe was NOT sundered, then the stars are the same ones seen on the souce for all reflections. And if ships were built on the 1st, or the second, etc, up to the 13th, to leave the sundered area of space around our star, they should be able to meet us up there beyond the moon. If Midgardsiormr could detect the sundering as he neared the star other races could also, such as the puppets. I wonder why they would have chosen to go to the first..and not the source...and why meteion's song did not affect them. Perhaps other alien races have indeed landed in the other reflections and we just don't know them yet.

But regardless, if other races can get into the reflections, the people in them should be able to fly out into the common area of space and meet us, or go back to other reflections or back to thier original one, just like we can to Ultima thule...although having the same ship in both places is also sort of odd too. Perhaps Hydaelyn did that to actually prevent the flight of the ship back due to the possibility of slipping into the other reflections.

Nah, cause in one of the stories it says they were standing around arguing when Elidibus stepped out of Zodiark's chest, so it sounds like he was with them on the star. As for your original question, I think the other shards are out of phase with the universe which is why the evacuation of them wouldn't be possible.

[Lium]

I figure the Shards share the same physical space as the Source, but are out of phase dimensionally.
So they see the same night sky as the Source does, but I think some weird stuff might happen if they actually tried to travel out into space.

It's this exactly.

Hasn't it been long established that the only way to travel between shards is to give up your flesh? Isn't that how Ardbert and his crew got to the Source to begin with, and how the Scions got to the First? Their souls were "called" but their bodies were still on the Source. Also, we just had a quest where we had to take Zero's soul to the First using a spirit vessel.

You can't just fly a spaceship to a different reflection because it's not a conventional solar system. It's more like a multiverse. If it were that simple Y'shtola would have been gone a long time ago.

Utlima Thule was not a different dimension. It was the edge of the universe. So you can actually fly to it if you have enough energy to reach it.

[totalimmortal]

Okay, answering the questions basically in order. Some of these will cover the same answers.

• when exactly the moon started existing is still an open question

me realizing that the moon is sundered even though they say hydaelyn built the moon to escape the final days

[SuperChris]

I would like to thank you all for your comments, and make the following replies:

I do not think that Hydaelyn created the moon. I believe the Ascians were already using it to house Zodiac, who was already complete before the sundering. Hydaelyn sundered the moon as well as the planet, and after the sundering and installing Zodiark's seal, probably on all reflections, but only installed the Lopperits and the Watcher on the moon of the source, as far as we know.

It looks like it was addressed in the MSQ after you made this point, but it's worth pointing out: It's mentioned that the Flood of Darkness on the 13th happened after Durante killed the Watcher there, so it's likely that every reflection has it's own Watcher. You're probably right on the Loporrits though.

[Mostly_Raxus]

all of the sundered planets occupy the same space just in different dementions right? almost wish they would of made the just occupy different places in the orbit of the sources star for plot convince at least, but that kinda makes us bridging the gap to the first+ less impactful, even tho ex-machina void gates already made a 100 year long scientific journey redundant to some extent..

[Lady_Silvermoon]

all of the sundered planets occupy the same space just in different dementions right? almost wish they would of made the just occupy different places in the orbit of the sources star for plot convince at least, but that kinda makes us bridging the gap to the first+ less impactful, even tho ex-machina void gates already made a 100 year long scientific journey redundant to some extent..

If they were in the same dimension but separated by space that would cause more story issues because the people on the Source figured out how to launch orbits into space 7,000 years ago. If we could look at the sky and see 13 other populated worlds, we would have been traveling back and forth between them a long time ago.

[Mostly_Raxus]

If they were in the same dimension but separated by space that would cause more story issues because the people on the Source figured out how to launch orbits into space 7,000 years ago. If we could look at the sky and see 13 other populated worlds, we would have been traveling back and forth between them a long time ago.

you raise a good point, im just worried that we raised to many plot holes creating a multiverse plain that exists but only in one singular position in a otherwise static space, it just seems like a situation of creating an answer with more problems that the initial problem it was meant to solve had, especially with the added lore that time flows differently in said spaces..
heck travel to all shards should be solved by going to the void and summoning ourselves there via a rift that i assume exist from void to every shard (assumed)
and also the ideal of a rejoining, our characters is like 7 out of 14 right? why have we not gotten bigger or more ancient like? would that not infer that a full rejoining would of done nothing? sure our souls might of been made hole, but they would be made hole to the image of the current source i assume, granted i guess they meant to use the reality stone, i men Zodiark to glam the world back to their image of it?
srry starting to tangent there, just it feels like a domino set of problems that only create more problems for the writers as they explain it, or they never touch it again to the detriment of the lore...
but heck maybe i dont give them enough credit, its is fantasy, they can literally just make a giant cosmic whale that can explain it all in Morgan Freeman's voice after all hehe

[Cleretic]

me realizing that the moon is sundered even though they say hydaelyn built the moon to escape the final days

Is there actual evidence that someone said that? I'm being serious, because to my knowledge it's just that the first time the moon is brought up in terms of the in-universe chronology is Hydaelyn's Moon Plan, and we generally took it to mean that she created it. The game itself is kind of cheekily evasive about it; neither of the Amaurot skyboxes in the Shadowbringers dungeon have a visible moon, and while there technically is a visible moon in Elpis, it's barely visible only in a very specific weather/time combo so that might not even be intentional.

Like I said on the first page, it almost doesn't matter; repurposing the moon as a prison/spaceship is about the same level of impressive as purpose-building it as one. But we don't really know, and none of the evidence is necessarily a gotcha either way.