Yoshi P in a nutshell

[4clubbedace]

When was the last time they listened to feedback here?

early days when more dev members would hang around, hw days? now they look at popular QOL plugins and create official versions to get people off them. Not everyoen that complains has good ideas

from live letter: having raid diagrams in game so i dont need shitty mspaint explanations helps a lot, i like that

[Absimiliard]

now they look at popular QOL plugins and create official versions to get people off them.

By creating poor imitations that in no way actually work to prevent those players from continuing to use their plugins. It just forces the people that make them to spend a bit of time writing a workaround so whatever new thing SE implemented doesn't interfere with its superior plugin predecessor. Players that don't use plugins wind up benefiting, at least.

[Burmecia]

Can I have top 3 ignored player feedback issues?

I hope it is not viera/hrothgar hats. Alliance roulette woes. What else? Homogenization and healers hating their jobs' design. Samurais crying after kaiten? Pvp having shed it's new coat of paint revealing it's true identity as weird and less than satisfactory?

Not everyoen that complains has good ideas

[LilimoLimomo]

Pray tell when was the last time Yoshi P made a change due to feedback that wasn't a simple UI or systems tweak?

The most recent Fan Fest. All the folks who've been asking for two dye channels for glams are psyched about it.

With respect, I'm guessing that maybe it feels to you like Yoshi-P isn't making changes due to feedback because he's not making the change you would care about the most?

[TheNight]

The most recent Fan Fest. All the folks who've been asking for two dye channels for glams are psyched about it.

With respect, I'm guessing that maybe it feels to you like Yoshi-P isn't making changes due to feedback because he's not making the change you would care about the most?

So yes, they're making simple systems adjustments. Things that an intern can do. Thank you proving my point.

[LilimoLimomo]

So yes, they're making simple systems adjustments. Things that an intern can do. Thank you proving my point.

With respect, this gives me the impression that you aren't considering all of the work that's actually involved with implementing a second dye channel. Depending on their tech, such a change requires structural changes to their database, code, UI, and texture data at the very least. No team worth their salt is going to let an intern do all of those disparate tasks, as there are impactful ramifications for many of them that are far above an intern's pay grade.

[Deo14]

The most recent Fan Fest. All the folks who've been asking for two dye channels for glams are psyched about it.

With respect, I'm guessing that maybe it feels to you like Yoshi-P isn't making changes due to feedback because he's not making the change you would care about the most?

Doing like 5 things according to feedback per expansion is not what I would imagine from devs who boast about listening to feedback. Especially since it's often just a small things. Things like CT cheesing should be solved a long time ago, patch or 2 after the suggestions started, but it's only getting fixed now. People were suggesting more radical changes, like making CT raids actually fun, but devs went the easy way and just made countermeasures for ilvl cheesing, which is still just a bandaid.

Similar with the dyes. People are asking constantly for removing glam restrictions, unlocking glams permanently, and make system similar to GW2/WoW, and of course dyes. And we go from 1 dye to a whole 2. One step at a time I guess.

You might argue that they've been doing some decent QoL this expansion, but that's not from good will, there had to be drama in 6.1 for them to finally start working on that.

Then we get to feedback about job design, that's where things become just sad. RDM is in terrible spot since like 6.1/6.2. We still don't have an answer to what did Kaiten removal actually solve. White mage and its clones healers are just bad. There's thread on healer forums called "Summary of healer issues", and the post has 4k words, which I'm not sure if it's hilarious or depressing. There's so many long standing issues, like problems with both level and ilvl sync, but they really just do few things per expansion according to feedback.

[LilimoLimomo]

Doing like 5 things according to feedback per expansion is not what I would imagine from devs who boast about listening to feedback.

With respect, this seems to have swept past the intent of my initial comment. I said there was a history of Yoshi-P making changes according to feedback, and insinuated that that history shouldn't be ignored. If the magnitude of that history isn't to someone's liking, sure, say as much, weigh in. Just don't ignore it.

Similar with the dyes. People are asking constantly for removing glam restrictions, unlocking glams permanently, and make system similar to GW2/WoW, and of course dyes. And we go from 1 dye to a whole 2. One step at a time I guess.

I'm definitely one of those people who would like major changes to the glam system such as the ones you listed. But I also understand when we don't get them, perhaps because I've worked in game dev myself? The way Yoshi-P talks about certain desired changes gives me the impression that the 2.0 implementation made a lot of understandably hasty choices that would at this point be costly to adjust. And as the game's producer, it's his job to min-max all of the possible work that could be done and decide which work is most worth the limited bandwidth the team has, which will necessarily take into account how much work each task takes and how much reward it's expected to bring. The higher the cost of making a change, the lower it's ratio of juice-per-squeeze. And sometimes that means that features I'd love get left on the cutting room floor.

You might argue that they've been doing some decent QoL this expansion, but that's not from good will, there had to be drama in 6.1 for them to finally start working on that.

Nope, I wouldn't ever argue goodwill. Companies aren't your friends, and every decision they make is made with consideration to their bottom line. Good will might sometimes overlap with that, but it's never the only thing at work.

That's why they make the changes they make, and that's why they add the content they make: because it's predicted to be what the most people will be happiest with, therefore perpetuating the sales of their product.

Then we get to feedback about job design...

I don't see the fact that there are problems as evidence that the devs aren't listening; rather, it generally highlights their priorities, as well as problems that are genuinely difficult to solve. In this case, it might suggest that these issues aren't seen as a meaningful enough problem to enough of the player base to be worth the cost of adjusting them. Maybe there are enough players that like the way things are that it complicates things. It's hard to say. But I'd be quite surprised to learn the devs are acting in opposition to what they believe the bulk of their players want, as that would be sabotaging their own project and careers.

[Koros]

structural changes to their database, code, UI, and texture data

something interns can do, or do you think modifying a struct in C# is some nigh-impossible task? the undergrad interns at Google easily deal with far harder tasks than anything in CBU3.

It's kind of sad that people think game dev coding is hard at all, no it's not, which is why we have specimens like Undertale's developer coding dialogues with

if 3232: print("literal string containing dialogue 3232")
if 3233: print...

for thousands of lines.

Of course, sadly Japan has a brain drain problem where its smartest people emigrate since its economy is in the gutters and it's work culture is a relic from chimp age, so even if they tried they couldn't do better anyways.

[LilimoLimomo]

something interns can do, or do you think modifying a struct in C# is some nigh-impossible task?

Oh, the struct modification is the easy part. What I wouldn't trust an intern to do is appropriately manage how the data in that struct is going to be efficiently stored in the database, nor manage how the existing database data will be ported over to the new structure (I feel like it's very safe to assume that CBU3 is using old-school servers, as opposed to anything in the cloud). And I'd be surprised if that same programming intern had the knowledge of the programs the artists do their texturing in to convert clothing that was initially implemented to only have a single dye channel to having two dye channels. This is a non-trivial undertaking across multiple skillsets.