For those who main/semi-main a DPS (e.g. DNC, RDM) but like Healers...

[Shurrikhan]

I made that specific point clear. The point was that casuals and DoTs do not mix well.

Corrections: players with high affective filter (be that from low engagement, high panic, or whatever else) and hitting things in a timely fashion do not always mix well. That's not unique to DoTs.

That also depends greatly on how focus is drawn to them. When DoTs were more integral and frequent such as back in ARR and HW, you'd see even very casual Bards maintaining their 18s duration DoTs with little issue. You'd see even casual Melees maintaining their 2-3 DoTs and their 2-4 buffs, both, with relatively little issue.

Exception: Heavy Thrust after combo length was lengthened by 2 GCDs per cycle saw a whopping <10% of players not always maintaining it. Which penalized them with 17 to ~50 potency. Oh noes?

Admittedly, yeah, if you set things up so every healing spell cultivates a Blood Lily (still ridiculously broken, btw), there'd be more focus on that previously accessible-per-60-seconds Misery. Perhaps it would even reorient attention around that previously accessible-per-60-to-100 seconds skill so much that being penalized for an entire Glare's worth of damage for each GCD past every 4th GCD in which they don't immediately pop it (e.g., if they panic-GCD-heal instead of dumping immediately from losing that rhythm (as opposed to 10.8% of a Glare per GCD for which Dia is delayed) wouldn't somehow be less player-unfriendly. But I doubt it.

Even RIGHT NOW, if we LEFT HEALERS ENTIRELY ALONE, they get more than 10% of their damage from more than one button.

GCD damage. We'd been talking about offensive spells. I wanted more. You did not. Sorry for the earlier ambiguity in the quick post.

AST and SCH can get ~90% of their GCD damage off a single button alone (and, without needing heals, even WHM does the same).

If they do not hit Combust, for instance --i.e., if somehow DoTs were uniquely or disproportionately what casual players struggle with rather than GCD minimization or CD usage in general-- then those Combust casts would become Malefics. The value of Combust, or indeed any other (soft) CD with an opportunity cost (that of a Malefic), is only its bonus (its damage over Malefic).

Each job can put out 24 GCDs per minute, pre-Spell Speed. If, per minute, they put out 24 fillers instead of 22 fillers and 2 DoTs, they average 90% of their damage potential.

Those DoTs do not simply vanish into the aether with no replacement, unless the problem is with more than DoTs (e.g., an issue with spending more than 90% of their time casting at all, even despite those DoTs being instant-casts).

Also, I don't think "didn't keep a DoT up or even apply it" is in the category of "mistake". Letting a DoT fall off isn't a "mistake". Letting a DoT fall off isn't a "mistake". A mistake is when you hot a button that's not optimal, not when you lose track of something because the native UI of the game does

It is a mistake. You hit another filler when you had the opportunity to start tapping into the bonus value of your soft-CD instead. That's hitting a non-optimal button. It's a ton less punishing than accidentally hitting Gekko after Shifu because you got your combos crossed, but it is literally hitting a non-optimal button.

I've pushed for UI adjustments since ARR, such as by allowing the DoT skill's icon itself to show the remaining time on your last enemy targeted, but seriously, it's not difficult to just put the Target's Status Effects just directly above or to the side of your own priority buffs, each expanding in the opposite direction, so you can easily track both. Voila.

The UI is customizable. If looking up per 20-30s is difficult... move it so you don't have to. We've been able to stack them neatly atop each other since the game's re-release.

I've said it doesn't represent the majority.
I've said it's an echo chamber.
I've said it doesn't allow for dissenting voices.

But where did I say it has nothing of value to consider and/or dismissed it outright?

If it weren't representative of the broader playerbase (and instead so skewed in our interests as to be incompatible with any desire for 'the greater good'), then why even bother?

If you keep hearing "echoes" of only the same thing, it might because you continue to ignore the variety in warrants for a shared conclusion, let alone the many differing conclusions themselves. When you simply classify anything disagrees with you as an echo of the same thing regardless of its motive, experiences, or underlying logics, then yeah, things will sound the same. A participants selective hearing, though, isn't the fault of a place of discourse.

If these forums don't allow for dissenting voices, then why are so few voices in agreement... on virtually anything between emotional handwaving ("things are bad/we need change") and hard facts?

But, let's you were actually right that this is a skewed echo chamber with some powerful group determining what is or is not "dissent". That would actually be damning. It'd give you, on the whole, far more reason to leave and never look back.

So which is it?