7.0 copium has got to stop

[Ransu]

Seriously, I don't even know where people get the idea that 7.0 is going to fix or even partially fix the problems with this game, it's not just one or two people, it's like the majority of the playerbase.

Yes, the 0.00005% of the player population that bothers to post on the forums is totally the "majority."

[Ivtrix]

Yes, the 0.00005% of the player population that bothers to post on the forums is totally the "majority."

It’s not just the forums but go off champ

[Renathras]

So this is where the doomium thread spawned from. Interesting.

Yeah?

I literally linked to this thread at the same time I posted that.

You're trying to act like there's some grand conspiracy to further your incessant (and irrelevant) argument that no one is positive about the game, but as I told you there several times (perhaps if you had bothered reading it instead of declaring an intent to be ignorant...), and was completely open about, that thread wasn't about positivity, it was open mockery of doomsaying.

There's a lot of specific feedback and discussion around what needs to be done with healer job design on the healer subforum, which is really good. I think a big part of the problem is in the consensus. There was a discussion on this earlier, in fact.

Yeah, the Healer subforum is a bit of an echo chamber (...more than a bit, actually...), but we've even been able to find points of agreement there. There's a thread something like "A modest proposal" with SCH changes that most people found they could agree on. While there's plenty of disagreement, and the big issue really is consensus, there's some general broad brush agreement that encounters are too heavily scripted, too mitigation focused, and not designed to work well with Healer toolkits as they presently exist. After that, it's a lot of disagreement. It's why my own personal proposal (the one I call "the 4 Healers model") is to kind of gear the different Jobs towards each of the different directions people seem to want, that way, everyone has something they like.

...needless to say, there's not even consensus on that. So you get the point.

The healer role has a problem that neither of the others do: a subset of players who want there to never ever be a skill ceiling above ankle-height. Not *floor*. Ceiling.

No, it doesn't. This is your caricature you trot out to attack disagreement.

Which, btw, only contributes to a lack of ability to develop consensus.

[Semirhage]

No, it doesn't. This is your caricature you trot out to attack disagreement.

Which, btw, only contributes to a lack of ability to develop consensus.

Sure, it's a "caricature". The unchanging line in the sand for every single one of your arguments is that you absolutely, positively, *must* have a healer that cannot develop a skill ceiling above what it has right now. Non-healing utility? "You just want to be a support". Damage rotation? "You just want to play a DPS". "Some people don't like damage rotations". On and on and on.

I'm sorry, what part of that isn't "no skill ceilings allowed"?

At least be honest about what you want. You call it a caricature because it makes Sylphies look like disingenuous liars. Which they are, but they at least understand that's not a good look.

[Supersnow845]

Sure, it's a "caricature". The unchanging line in the sand for every single one of your arguments is that you absolutely, positively, *must* have a healer that cannot develop a skill ceiling above what it has right now. Non-healing utility? "You just want to be a support". Damage rotation? "You just want to play a DPS". "Some people don't like damage rotations". On and on and on.

I'm sorry, what part of that isn't "no skill ceilings allowed"?

At least be honest about what you want. You call it a caricature because it makes Sylphies look like disingenuous liars. Which they are, but they at least understand that's not a good look.

I’ve yet to see renathras or striker even present an argument for why all 4 healers need to be 4 versions of watered down 4.0 WHM (including having useless gauges)

Let’s be super generous and say they actually are the majority and the playerbase is satisfied with healers on the whole (I’ve presented evidence to the contrary but let’s go hypothetical) there is still a strong undercurrent of being annoyed at modern healers (especially from the older playerbase), what’s stopping them from making 1 or 2 of the 4 healers something that we want

If current WHM is a 1 and HW SCH is a 100 on the scale of difficulty then current AST is about a 15 and current SCH is about a 7, why is it impossible to conceive one of them could be a 75, not every healer needs to accomodate people who spam diagnosis and call it a playstyle

[Striker44]

I’ve yet to see renathras or striker even present an argument for why all 4 healers need to be 4 versions of watered down 4.0 WHM (including having useless gauges)

I've actually commented on this in several threads over time, though I believe most frequently about tanks rather than healers. I generally enjoy the way they structure the classes within a role. For someone like me with relatively limited time to play (at least compared to years ago), knowing that every tank, for example, is going to have the same baseline set of abilities (e.g. an attack combo-sequence, a Bulwark, a larger 20% dmg reduction, an immunity, etc.) and then augment it with some unique specific skills - it makes it much more feasible to try out the different classes and see what I enjoy most. I'm confident I'll have the basic idea of what to do, and can focus my limited time on learning those specific abilities that make the class distinct.

Healers are even more varied in that regard, with the separation between "pure" healers and "shield" healers. And DPS even more so with the mix of melee, ranged, physical, magical, etc.. Heck, even within magical DPS a BLM plays very different than an RDM.

As to your question regarding perceived difficulty (we'll ignore the wild inaccuracies of your personal take on "rating" them), what developer wants to spend time creating a class that very few people will play? FFXIV of today is the WoW of 2005 (while the WoW of today has become the EQ of 2005). It's the MMO targeted most directly at casual gamers who are looking for a relaxed, fun experience playing a game. It's part of what helped WoW become the first mega-blockbuster MMO, and part of what is driving FFXIV to thrive today and continue growing with each expansion. (And heck, some of WoW's big changes like introducing different raid difficulties, LFR, etc., was in large part because such a minuscule % of the playerbase was actually engaging in the raids. It was demoralizing to put so much work into making something that so few people were actually doing.)

Because they will feel bad if the game makes them feel that they suck. So sadly we are now in a state where everyone must be made to feel competent despite their incompetence.

Sadly it isn't quite just skill ceilings that he's against. It seems that he's against anyone that is more knowledgeable than him at all.

Are you okay, Titan? I almost feel sorry for you.

[Supersnow845]

I've actually commented on this in several threads over time, though I believe most frequently about tanks rather than healers. I generally enjoy the way they structure the classes within a role. For someone like me with relatively limited time to play (at least compared to years ago), knowing that every tank, for example, is going to have the same baseline set of abilities (e.g. an attack combo-sequence, a Bulwark, a larger 20% dmg reduction, an immunity, etc.) and then augment it with some unique specific skills - it makes it much more feasible to try out the different classes and see what I enjoy most. I'm confident I'll have the basic idea of what to do, and can focus my limited time on learning those specific abilities that make the class distinct.

Healers are even more varied in that regard, with the separation between "pure" healers and "shield" healers. And DPS even more so with the mix of melee, ranged, physical, magical, etc.. Heck, even within magical DPS a BLM plays very different than an RDM.

As to your question regarding perceived difficulty (we'll ignore the wild inaccuracies of your personal take on "rating" them), what developer wants to spend time creating a class that very few people will play? FFXIV of today is the WoW of 2005 (while the WoW of today has become the EQ of 2005). It's the MMO targeted most directly at casual gamers who are looking for a relaxed, fun experience playing a game. It's part of what helped WoW become the first mega-blockbuster MMO, and part of what is driving FFXIV to thrive today and continue growing with each expansion. (And heck, some of WoW's big changes like introducing different raid difficulties, LFR, etc., was in large part because such a minuscule % of the playerbase was actually engaging in the raids. It was demoralizing to put so much work into making something that so few people were actually doing.)





Are you okay, Titan? I almost feel sorry for you.

If you have limited time why not just be happy with one class you know how to play, why force the rest of us to play watered down copy cat classes because you want to feel “comfortable” on every class you play

And as for your second point about why should square make classes like that well it’s because if you actually read the data on this I sent a few pages ago that type of class already existed and people liked it more than they like current healers so…….

[Ransu]

It’s not just the forums but go off champ

It literally is just the forums that complains like this.

[TheOperator3712]

It literally is just the forums that complains like this.

r/ffxivdiscussion would like to know your location.

[Stormpeaks]

r/ffxivdiscussion would like to know your location.

People in the game would also like to know their location tbh, literally everyone is complaining about healer being terrible and boring