Can 7.0 focus on a storyline without the philosophizing

[SieyaM]

Zeromus was literally pulled out of nowhere for the sole reason of "FFIV did it and it's the FFIV expansion". I'm not sure where the writers got the idea that there are supposed to be FF_ expansions that copy everything from the source material, but they've been doing it a lot in Endwalker, especially in 6.x



It's either going to be Zero as she turns into Cecil because 'muh FFIV', or one of the two Golbez. I'd imagine that if it's a Golbez, it's the original one.



Golbez probably killed him.



They probably didn't exist on the 13th moon but if they did, Golbez hopefully killed them.



I forgot if it was outright confirmed, but the general vibe I got from 6.0 is that if we didn't go kill Meteion, the shards were screwed.



Doesn't mean you have to do it in every expansion.

They don't have to do it in every expansion, but it seems strange to be so upset that a series is doing something they've been doing for a long time. It's something that they are kind of expected to do at this point.

[AwesomeJr44]

They don't have to do it in every expansion, but it seems strange to be so upset that a series is doing something they've been doing for a long time. It's something that they are kind of expected to do at this point.

Ignoring the fact that its message was flawed to begin with, one of Endwalker's major issues is that it was preachy with its message. People tend to not like being preached to, even if they would have been receptive to the same message otherwise, as it feels like said message is being shoved down their throats. Because 6.0 was as preachy with its messaging as it was, some of us would prefer that 7.0 take a different direction entirely and just not bother getting into the philosophical. I'd rather the story lack a philosophical and thought provoking message than have it devolve into a repeat of 6.0. Having too much of a good thing can be worse than not having it at all.

[SieyaM]

Ignoring the fact that its message was flawed to begin with, one of Endwalker's major issues is that it was preachy with its message. People tend to not like being preached to, even if they would have been receptive to the same message otherwise, as it feels like said message is being shoved down their throats. Because 6.0 was as preachy with its messaging as it was, some of us would prefer that 7.0 take a different direction entirely and just not bother getting into the philosophical. I'd rather the story lack a philosophical and thought provoking message than have it devolve into a repeat of 6.0. Having too much of a good thing can be worse than not having it at all.

While I will admit the story was a little sloppy and suffered some pacing and other issues, people's beloved FF titles were also philosophical, they just like to ignore it. Nevermind the fact you start out FFVII as an eco terrorist trying to destroy a power plant polluting the world.

[AwesomeJr44]

While I will admit the story was a little sloppy and suffered some pacing and other issues, people's beloved FF titles were also philosophical, they just like to ignore it. Nevermind the fact you start out FFVII as an eco terrorist trying to destroy a power plant polluting the world.

You can have a good philosophical message without being preachy about it. That's why people are generally alright with a lot of the FF titles that are philosophical in nature.

[SieyaM]

You can have a good philosophical message without being preachy about it. That's why people are generally alright with a lot of the FF titles that are philosophical in nature.

So then you're problem isn't with the philosophizing but the delivery, so maybe say that instead of just assuming it's the philosophizing itself ruining the experience

[AwesomeJr44]

So then you're problem isn't with the philosophizing but the delivery, so maybe say that instead of just assuming it's the philosophizing itself ruining the experience

Like I said, the problem is that it was too preachy, and I'd rather we not get a philosophical message at all than have a risk of getting another preachy expansion. I don't have faith that the writers can handle writing philosophical messages properly.

[Theodric]

You can have a good philosophical message without being preachy about it. That's why people are generally alright with a lot of the FF titles that are philosophical in nature.

Yeah, I think a lot of people rightfully roll their eyes when a game gets too preachy and refuses to let the player come to their own conclusions. Particularly when it comes to deeper and more controversial subjects.

I've said it many times before but MMO's in particular attract players from all over the world from many different countries, cultures, personality types, social classes and belief systems.

As such, I think that the core cast should reflect that. I'm Scottish, I've made friends from many different parts of the world during my time playing MMO's. We don't always agree on everything and it's outright bizarre that the writers of this game insist on pushing mutual agreement amongst the core cast at pretty much every turn. That isn't how real, relatable individuals operate.

With a varied cast there's a greater chance that individual players will find a particular character or two that they find agreeable. With a cast that echo one another at almost every turn and eventually 'evolve' to have only surface level differences between them then that is less likely to happen.

[TaleraRistain]

As such, I think that the core cast should reflect that. I'm Scottish, I've made friends from many different parts of the world during my time playing MMO's. We don't always agree on everything and it's outright bizarre that the writers of this game insist on pushing mutual agreement amongst the core cast at pretty much every turn. That isn't how real, relatable individuals operate.

I had forgotten this but I just went through story on an alt and there was a point where Alphinaud went and asked Riol and Alianne why they stayed with the Scions after the Crystal Braves disbanded. And the simple answer they gave was that they recognized that the Scions were all united in a common cause.

Also, when you watch the core group we interact with, there's an unspoken agreement to be open to input and allow people to speak. They debate different perspectives or paths to take and each gives their viewpoint in a non-judgmental atmosphere. You're not going to see a lot of direct conflict in that sort of environment and it's not unrealistic because that's how effective teams work in the real world.

[Theodric]

I had forgotten this but I just went through story on an alt and there was a point where Alphinaud went and asked Riol and Alianne why they stayed with the Scions after the Crystal Braves disbanded. And the simple answer they gave was that they recognized that the Scions were all united in a common cause.

Also, when you watch the core group we interact with, there's an unspoken agreement to be open to input and allow people to speak. They debate different perspectives or paths to take and each gives their viewpoint in a non-judgmental atmosphere. You're not going to see a lot of direct conflict in that sort of environment and it's not unrealistic because that's how effective teams work in the real world.

They dress it up very nicely but there's rarely any serious attempt to truly see where the 'other side' are coming from. More often than not the story will treat anyone with different viewpoints or opinions as in the wrong or in need of being humbled or humiliated - often with some silly strawman being conjured up in the process. Even in cases where the vote goes the 'wrong way' initially, the Scions will insist on doubling down and trying to force through the 'correct' result. Either through actual force or deception.

As for 'effective teams'. I'd argue otherwise. I'd say that a group of individuals from different backgrounds and belief systems would genuinely be more capable of understanding where different people are coming from as opposed to those who push out anyone the moment there's even the slightest meaningful difference.

Let's also not forget that it wasn't until recently that the typical stance embraced by society at large could be summed up as 'live and let live'. Ultimately I don't think the game does a good job at accounting for different tastes, personal beliefs, cultural differences and personality differences amongst the playerbase.

[Vyrerus]

They debate

Nah. Not the Scions. I can't even remember the last time the Scions had a minor disagreement, let alone a debate. Plenty of disagreements and debates with world leaders, not so much from within.

Heck, the only thing that comes to mind is when Alphinaud is at first trying to get someone to roger up to be the new antecedent, but everyone settles on doing their "own" thing, which just winds up going right back to working together as a whole group anyway.

Also I'd say that effective teams in the real world have leadership who make executive decisions for them, with each tendril of the team often not agreeing wholesale with said leadership's moves, and often having to disregard or ignore certain commands or mandates for practical considerations the leader doesn't often deal with directly. The Scions are less a team of people, and more a pseudo hivemind of mouthpieces. They want for not knowing what to do. Like, any situation that comes along that, "stumps" them is either something that results in an outcome immediately that they didn't get to exercise control over, or it's the next major plot point, and they just have to wait for the WoL to present the keyword or solution that gives them their, "eureka" moment, leaving me to wonder how they ever actually get stumped when they have all the answers.