Can 7.0 focus on a storyline without the philosophizing

[VelKallor]

BTW Im going to ask what I asked Mr Art Critic Aveyond the OverLoud: how do you know what you want is what the players want? How do you know that the changes you suggest will be well received? How do you know what you want is what OTHERS want?

You DO NOT speak for the "majority", despite all the bleating we see here.

To go back to the earlier metaphor: you are in the restaurant telling the owner that your "new menu" is what the customers will want...when it could in fact have the direct opposite effect, you are in HIS business telling them "you know best" when in fact you have no way of knowing whether or not what you propose will even WORK? How do you know that your suggested changes are what others want?

How do you know that what you are demanding WONT cause the customers to go elsewhere? Clive Cussler didnt one day decide to go and kill off Dirk Pitt because "we should kill people off to make it interesting with a fresh cast", he was a successful novelist who KNEW because his books were all bestsellers that this is what his readers WANTED.

David Weber decided NOT to kill off Honor Harrington because he KNEW that wasnt what his readers wanted. Just the opposite. The setup and cast they have now in FF 14 are highly successful, and outside this little echo chamber NO ONE here knows whether or not what THEY think is good for the game...will actually be just that.

You DONT know for certain. Admit it.

All I see here is "this is what I think will work"..did it ever occur to any of you that you could be WRONG?

If that hasnt occurred to you, maybe you should.

[AwesomeJr44]

You DO NOT speak for the "majority", despite all the bleating we see here.

You say this, and yet you have the hubris to assume that you do. In your absolute failure of a metaphor that you keep insisting on pushing, you're a Karen that yells at people in an attempt to try and suppress opinions that you don't agree with because you find their very utterance offensive. You pretend that some invisible majority agrees with you because you know that your rants could never stand on their own legs as logical arguments. Odd that you would feel the need to do so in such an angry and defensive manner if such opinions were coming from mere 'malcontents'.

Kindly cease and desist.

The story has thus become predictable. If there are a bunch of soldiers who hate your guts trying to kill you, out of misunderstanding, we already know what will happen: Alphinaud will say "hold your steel", and we won't kill them. Y'shtola might chime in and explain why they have the misunderstanding. We will fight them but not kill them. We will knock them out. They will then recover and stand up, and the writers now have two choices: to make these soldiers come to our side and stay stubborn. Because the writers require that their philosophy wins out, these soldiers will come to our side eventually. Maybe one or two won't, and will get cleaned off either by dying or becoming a villain and then dying, but the vast majority would. So these soldiers are going to stand up and ask "why didn't you kill us" and now the table is set for Alphinaud to espouse his pacifist philosophy for the ten thousandth time.

This is so accurate that it's sad.

[IkaraGreydancer]

You say this, and yet you have the hubris to assume that you do. In your absolute failure of a metaphor that you keep insisting on pushing, you're a Karen that yells at people in an attempt to try and suppress opinions that you don't agree with because you find their very utterance offensive. You pretend that some invisible majority agrees with you because you know that your rants could never stand on their own legs as logical arguments. Odd that you would feel the need to do so in such an angry and defensive manner if such opinions were coming from mere 'malcontents'.

Kindly cease and desist.



This is so accurate that it's sad.

Predictable? Who here by a show of hands predicted Zodiark would be our first trial? Maybe Hyd being our 2nd. Who here predicted Endsinger would even be a thing or that msq would revolve heavily around themes of nihilism?Who predicted that Zenos would become Shinryu once again and travel the stars to aid us? Who predicted Fandaniel was Amon? Who predicated we'd have a friendly battle with Venat? Hell who predicted Elpis? Like I could ask a hundred of these.

To sit and act Ike everything is oh so predictable is so weird to me. What do you expect us to just start wiping people out who don't agree with us or something? We've always sided more on diplomacy and it'd be jarring if that started to no longer be the case. I'd much rather have consistent characters rather than ones that flip flop at the drop of a hat. BUT thats also why I welcome new ones. I'm at a point where I feel many of yall just want/need a new game

[AwesomeJr44]

Predictable?

You're probably better off quoting TheDecay seeing as none of the things you brought up outside of your last paragraph have anything to do with the section I was quoting from him. That being said, most of the examples you gave were either predictable or irrelevant to the plot or characters. The Elpis one is really the only one that wasn't.

What do you expect us to just start wiping people out who don't agree with us or something? We've always sided more on diplomacy and it'd be jarring if that started to no longer be the case.

No, I think some of us just want some of the people we meet to not become our friends just because we asked nicely, and who can actually pose as a differing point of view that isn't forced to adopt ours by the end of the story.

[IkaraGreydancer]

No, I think some of us just want some of the people we meet to not become our friends just because we asked nicely, and who can actually pose as a differing point of view that isn't forced to adopt ours by the end of the story.

Thing is not everyone joins up simply because we nicely ask. And it's not as though the Scions agree on every little thing as it is. Say they do introduce characters that are at odds most of the time what does that really achieve? I've seen many here complain about the story dragging yet wouldnt infighting just drag the story out even more? And I've yet to see anyone "forced" to adopt our views...If you could point out some examples I'm not recalling I'm all ears and will take that back. Those who do join the Scion do so willingly in part because they share the Scions views in one way or another.

[AwesomeJr44]

And it's not as though the Scions agree on every little thing as it is.

There has not been a source of genuine major internal conflict within the scions for a very long time, and any minor conflict that arises is resolved swiftly and with no consequences. No, Urianger pretending to be evil for five seconds in each expansion before revealing that he was really a good guy all along doesn't count.

I've seen many here complain about the story dragging yet wouldnt infighting just drag the story out even more?

It depends. Are we interacting with NPCs that have nothing to do with the current main plot like with what happened in 6.4? Then yes, that is dragging the story out.

And I've yet to see anyone "forced" to adopt our views

The scions are not literally forcing people to bend to their will, it's a problem with the writing and how characters will suddenly act out of character when it's time for them to merge with the scions' hivemind amoeba. This was obviously my point, so much so that I have to question if your misrepresentation of it was intentional. It wouldn't be the first time you have done so.

[IkaraGreydancer]

There has not been a source of genuine major internal conflict within the scions for a very long time, and any minor conflict that arises is resolved swiftly and with no consequences. No, Urianger pretending to be evil for five seconds in each expansion before revealing that he was really a good guy all along doesn't count.



It depends. Are we interacting with NPCs that have nothing to do with the current main plot like with what happened in 6.4? Then yes, that is dragging the story out.



The scions are not literally forcing people to bend to their will, it's a problem with the writing and how characters will suddenly act out of character when it's time for them to merge with the scions' hivemind amoeba. This was obviously my point, so much so that I have to question if your misrepresentation of it was intentional. It wouldn't be the first time you have done so.

If you point has nothing to do with forcing...why use said word? You don't get to say something then accuse (or consider doing as such) someone of misrepresenting when they took you at your word. That's not how this works. Maybe say what you actually mean going forward and this wouldn't happen. When I see the word force that implies something being done against ther will. I post definitions of stuff here often so yes I do go with the literal sense of what I'm reading.

As to the first point why does the inner conflict need to be major to count? Why would anything major even crop up at this point between them? What would that even be realistically?

And lastly who exactly has acted out of character when they joined the Scion "hivemind"? I'd imagine it has to be an extensive amount of people for you to make said point.

[Nav_Fae]

Predictable? Who here by a show of hands predicted Zodiark would be our first trial? Maybe Hyd being our 2nd. Who here predicted Endsinger would even be a thing or that msq would revolve heavily around themes of nihilism?Who predicted that Zenos would become Shinryu once again and travel the stars to aid us? Who predicted Fandaniel was Amon? Who predicated we'd have a friendly battle with Venat? Hell who predicted Elpis? Like I could ask a hundred of these.

To sit and act Ike everything is oh so predictable is so weird to me. What do you expect us to just start wiping people out who don't agree with us or something? We've always sided more on diplomacy and it'd be jarring if that started to no longer be the case. I'd much rather have consistent characters rather than ones that flip flop at the drop of a hat. BUT thats also why I welcome new ones. I'm at a point where I feel many of yall just want/need a new game

None of it is predictable. People will be given a foreshadow of something two levels before an event or four quests before it. Then reply with, I knew it! Saw this coming! Even though the foreshadow was only made predictable literally 4 quests ago.