Are Mentors seen as unhelpful?

[Asako]

Mentors are there to give you faster queues and that's it really. If you want help from them ask them. As a mentor myself I find it disrespectful to just jump in and spoil the fights for people. It's not a mentors job to hold your hand.

As for mass pulling, that is the standard in FFXIV and always has been. Even back then we done mass pulls with way worse gear. No pull in Wanderers Palace of all places is even remotely a challenge for healers if the Tank knows what he's doing.

I've done around 3500 mentor roulettes and the only toxic people I ever come across are non mentors. Pretty much every mentor out there is just like you, they are just there to play a game and have fun. The only bad mentors you will come across are those who are just bad at the game and bail when any sort of hard content comes up and even that is rare. Anyone that tells you anything else is just lying through their teeth. Stop worrying about a crown that no one cares about.

[KeshLives]

Mentors are there to give you faster queues and that's it really. If you want help from them ask them. As a mentor myself I find it disrespectful to just jump in and spoil the fights for people. It's not a mentors job to hold your hand.

As for mass pulling, that is the standard in FFXIV and always has been. Even back then we done mass pulls with way worse gear. No pull in Wanderers Palace of all places is even remotely a challenge for healers if the Tank knows what he's doing.

I've done around 3500 mentor roulettes and the only toxic people I ever come across are non mentors. Pretty much every mentor out there is just like you, they are just there to play a game and have fun. The only bad mentors you will come across are those who are just bad at the game and bail when any sort of hard content comes up and even that is rare. Anyone that tells you anything else is just lying through their teeth. Stop worrying about a crown that no one cares about.

I had a mentor tank last night on my 49 Machinist in Aurum Vale (Leveling Roulette). I died twice, since he was in such a hurry he didn't bother to hold the mobs properly, so the 'not well-held' mobs killed me twice. I did nothing special, just AoE like other people did. So, yeah, some mentors aren't so wonderful. Once again, it's all fine and good to pull wall to wall...but only if you can handle it right. If I have to run back because you tried to pull too much, once I'll forgive, but twice, you should pull a bit less.

If I die as a DPS or healer because the tank either pulled too much, or couldn't hold the mobs they pulled, they need to pull less. Mentor or not.

EDIT: Basically, if I have to run back because the tank pulled more than they could handle, any 'time savings' are lost. Pull less, that you can handle.

[Shinkuno]

Most are, yes.

But that is because people do largely have unrealistic or inappropriate expectations of what a mentor should be, they aren't really designed to be anything more than a simple signpost for FAQ-esque questions e.g., "When do I get my Chocobo", "How do I unlock xyz"

It doesn't really help either that there is a status symbol and mount locked behind it - Because this means that people will oft' work towards it for cosmetic reasons - Rather than actually wanting to help people. There should be no symbol whatsoever for becoming a mentor. Equally, there should not be a mount locked behind it - At best just a Framer Kit for reaching that level. Achievements, sure. But they should be like the commendation achievements, in that the score they give is 0.

You will rarely actually find people that are useful and/or helpful. There are countless people that are just simply bad for it - and I mean people that are teachers/mentors by career.

I dont think expecting mentors to actually know how to play is unrealistic. But 90% of mentors that you get as healer are curebots.

[Kaurhz]

I dont think expecting mentors to actually know how to play is unrealistic. But 90% of mentors that you get as healer are curebots.

Expecting a rudimentary understanding of the game is not an unrealistic and inappropriate expectation, no.

My comment was more framed in reference to people historically having proposed that mentors should clear savage/ultimate etc (Which has been present in other threads/locations)., Mainly because:

a) At that point in the game people should be able to find the knowledge and improve in a much more independent manner than someone who is, say, level 15.
b) The facets of the game those pieces of content test, don't necessarily align with what the purpose of the mentor system is, really.

Just as a little context of what the system is supposedly aiming to accomplish

Provide gameplay advice for new adventurers and other players.
Be an exemplar for player etiquette.
Invite new adventurers to the Novice Network, and answer their queries in the chat channel.
※Inappropriate mentor behavior may be reported.

Granted, these are lofty goals - But I just don't necessarily think that having completed certain areas of content translates very well into either of the above points. Bar may be gameplay advice. But then there is a certain point where players should be able to discern what is and isn't good advice or sources of information. - As you can get bad information and misinformation at any level, and from any player.

I've always viewed mentorship as essentially being equivalent to first-line tech support. - In that, you expect the person to be capable of answering very rudimentary questions, or at the very least be capable of pointing you in the right direction (e.g., Balance, IV) - and by rudimentary I mean; "Where can I get my Chocobo", "How do I unlock Crystal Tower", "Where can I get tomestone gear"

[tsuchii]

Honestly, as long as the party is not wiping, I don't interfere. Quiet and peaceful mentor roulettes are the way to go. I finished all 2000 mentor roulettes and it's just usually just hello's and goodbye's.

The only times I ever really "mentored" are when I get extremes which happens like once every 10-20x.

If I get praetorium or a slow pulling dungeon, I just endure the 30-minute penalty as a DPS. No need to be pissy. The exit option and the penalty system are there for a reason.

I think the bad rep is not really coming from duties but from the Novice Network. That chat space is home of some of the most annoying people in the game, and not even all of them are battle mentors. Avoid it at all cost. All the information you need is readily available on Google anyway.

[hynaku]

It's not worth being a mentor everyone aspects them to be perfect.

[Asako]

It's not worth being a mentor everyone aspects them to be perfect.

It's the only way to access Extreme Roulette Trial so unfortunately there is some worth in it.

As for the quality of mentors I absolutely agree, we know most of them are trash because most of the people that play this game are technically trash. A lot of people just play for the story so the average players skill is usually really low. Mentors are just people that played for a lot longer. Like I said, they are just there for the faster queues and people need to stop acting like they are the best players going. Don't take them being bad players as being toxic players as it's not the same thing. A lot of them have just got used to full pulls being the meta in this game and try and imitate it because believe it or not you will get harrassed for pulling too slow too. You can't win with some people. Just get on with it.

The reason bad mentors stand out more is because chances are if you are noticing a bad mentor you're probably a decent player that is getting frustrated with their skill level. Keep the head down and just batter away. If you wipe you wipe it's fine, you don't lose anything.

People just need to chill out more and accept there are players of all sorts of skill levels in the game.

[PredatoryCatgirl]

Was ST and WoD with a new person, in a mic call, with two other people (One of which kept trying to push me to get the mentor crown). The mentor didn't want to explain anything to the new person, so I started to. Only took them 1-2 boss fights before they began interrupting me and complaining that I'm 'overloading the new person' any time I tried to explain the simplest mechanic.

Like, I've had people in 24 man runs tell me to shut up when I'm the only one explaining mechanics to new people (Happens the most to me at Thunder God Cid... you guys remember the pain), and I'm just wondering why so many people get the loudest, in a bad way, when people are trying to help other people.

I roll my eyes any time I see the mentor crown on someone, cause they're always the last ones I expect to give helpful advice.

Stuff like this is exactly why I'm a mentor who doesn't wear the crown. I have it mainly to have access to NN. Anywhere else, good advice is good advice. I don't need a crown to tutor a sprout.

Also, the icon being a crown is in and of itself stupid. The people we mentor have tiny little plants by their names. Our symbol should be a watering can.

[Mosha]

I had a mentor tank last night on my 49 Machinist in Aurum Vale (Leveling Roulette). I died twice, since he was in such a hurry he didn't bother to hold the mobs properly, so the 'not well-held' mobs killed me twice. I did nothing special, just AoE like other people did. So, yeah, some mentors aren't so wonderful. Once again, it's all fine and good to pull wall to wall...but only if you can handle it right. If I have to run back because you tried to pull too much, once I'll forgive, but twice, you should pull a bit less.

If I die as a DPS or healer because the tank either pulled too much, or couldn't hold the mobs they pulled, they need to pull less. Mentor or not.

EDIT: Basically, if I have to run back because the tank pulled more than they could handle, any 'time savings' are lost. Pull less, that you can handle.

I have a sneaking suspicion there is more to this, I noticed that you never said he pulled too much but rather that he didn't bother to hold them. My guess is he was going up the far left side of the first chamber and then cutting into the boss room but the other players didn't follow in his footsteps and either got pulled by the toad or the wandering patrol and expected him to come back and save them.

[Remolia]

I think a lot of people go mentor only to get access to Public chat channel, since game does not provide other public channels, and ingame link-shells have awful functionality and quality.