Are Mentors seen as unhelpful?

[HyperiusUltima]

I recently got out of a Mentor Roulette Duty in Wanderer's Palace, and at the start they did a giant pull of 7+ mobs(which is difficult for some healers). The healer was doing fine, but then when he did another giant pull, he didn't have cooldowns until when his HP was already low. I noted that he should use Cooldowns when doing big pulls, but when it turned out the healer had gone AFK for a minute, I apologized as needed.

However, the rest of the dungeon he was being a snark about Mentors in general being unhelpful or critical or nosy. Is this how most people see mentors? Because if so, it shows that the Mentor system is failing, or that some players view mentors as unreliable and unhelpful, possibly because of their own experience of their NN on their home world.

[Roshidon1]

Honestly I just do random stuff in the duty finder, but most people, including mentors don't even talk so can't even really give an honest opinion towards them. I know the Novice Network is really helpful (having been a returner multiple times to this game) and it's kind of annoying that they kick you out of it after you reach the amount of hours they decide for you not to need it anymore.

[Syln]

As far as i'm concerned, mentor is just a status you unlock to be able to farm a mount :3

People that are being "snarky" about it are just helpless sad f... that don't deserve any attention whatsoever.

[drtasteyummy]

No, one person clearly resembles the opinion of what people think about mentors, so it's a really good idea that you're asking here again, a place closely resembling the FFXIV version of Twitter, providing a better view on this subject. Of course, you should also ensure you begin to lecture people who didn't even ask, to clearly demonstrate how obnoxious you are.

[HyperiusUltima]

No, one person clearly resembles the opinion of what people think about mentors, so it's a really good idea that you're asking here again, a place closely resembling the FFXIV version of Twitter, providing a better view on this subject. Of course, you should also ensure you begin to lecture people who didn't even ask, to clearly demonstrate how obnoxious you are.

Well obviously where do you even go to ask this question? The NN? That's based on your home world. Twitter? I don't even know since Twitter's a mess. Here? Probably the best place considering Twitter's a mess of all sorts of stuff with how Elon's been managing it.

[Boblawblah]

I don't see them as anything at all. They're just players.

[Jeeqbit]

The healer was doing fine, but then when he did another giant pull, he didn't have cooldowns until when his HP was already low.

Of course, the tank should have saved their cooldowns appropriately to cover both pulls, but most tanks you meet in dungeons don't know anything or are relatively inexperienced tanking the dungeon. The last one I healed barely used mit at all except when it was pointless. The main dungeons a novice healer might struggle with if the tank doesn't use cooldowns are leveling dungeons and the first max level dungeon of each expansion, because of their item level sync.

but when it turned out the healer had gone AFK for a minute, I apologized as needed.

This is why it's not worth blurting out "advice" to strangers unless you know them outside the dungeon. You don't know if there was another factor involved like someone being AFK, lag, a mouse battery dying, being distracted, just a rare genuine mistake. And if any of those things are true, they are going to feel insulted.

However, the rest of the dungeon he was being a snark about Mentors in general being unhelpful or critical or nosy. Is this how most people see mentors?

A lot of people do, but it's not because of the mentor system. Veteran players in general are often "snarky", "rude" or "impatient" in any online game. It just so happens that a large amount of veteran players qualify for mentor status and turn on the crown.

If there wasn't a mentor system, the same thing would happen, the people behaving this way would just not have an icon to indicate they are a veteran player.

possibly because of their own experience of their NN on their home world.

The majority of people do not even ever join the Novice Network. The minority that do have a good experience in most networks because the people in there actually help and answer questions.

The negative perception seems to come from people who don't join the novice network and meet mentors in dungeons who give them "advice" which they interpret as harrasment. Because when you blurt out advice suddenly it can be interpreted as insulting and snarky unless you are very, very careful with your wording.

[HyperiusUltima]

Of course, the tank should have saved their cooldowns appropriately to cover both pulls, but most tanks you meet in dungeons don't know anything or are relatively inexperienced tanking the dungeon. The last one I healed barely used mit at all except when it was pointless. The main dungeons a novice healer might struggle with if the tank doesn't use cooldowns are leveling dungeons and the first max level dungeon of each expansion, because of their item level sync.

This is why it's not worth blurting out "advice" to strangers unless you know them outside the dungeon. You don't know if there was another factor involved like someone being AFK, lag, a mouse battery dying, being distracted, just a rare genuine mistake. And if any of those things are true, they are going to feel insulted.

A lot of people do, but it's not because of the mentor system. Veteran players in general are often "snarky", "rude" or "impatient" in any online game. It just so happens that a large amount of veteran players qualify for mentor status and turn on the crown.

If there wasn't a mentor system, the same thing would happen, the people behaving this way would just not have an icon to indicate they are a veteran player.

The majority of people do not even ever join the Novice Network. The minority that do have a good experience in most networks because the people in there actually help and answer questions.

The negative perception seems to come from people who don't join the novice network and meet mentors in dungeons who give them "advice" which they interpret as harrasment. Because when you blurt out advice suddenly it can be interpreted as insulting and snarky unless you are very, very careful with your wording.

I see. So that type of behavior would happen anyway. Their view mostly had to do with how mentors expected them to be happy for their 'charitable contribution' with a smile, though I certainly don't expect it and it sounds like a stereotype. I'm just there to help move the dungeon along. At the very least apologizing for it is enough, I would hope - but I don't intend to harass people with advice as you say. I guess from now on I can't help people and will just have to be silent in any content that includes Mentor Roulette like the rest.

[Jeeqbit]

I guess from now on I can't help people and will just have to be silent in any content that includes Mentor Roulette like the rest.

Most of the time, yes. However there will be times when someone asks questions and you can kindly answer them with all that experience you have, because then it's solicited advice. You are also helping them just by being there and having sped up their queue, and by being patient when they make mistakes and cause a wipe.

You can also do things such as carrying them (putting a shield on them if you know new players usually get hit by something and die), and they will still learn they got hit by it when they take all that damage. Or you can mark things they should attack with a (1) marker (I have this on my hotbar), or just appearing like the person who is doing all the mechanics right and the person to follow.

Or in some trials like the first EW trial I just mark myself with a dorito so people can follow me, because sometimes most of the people there have absolutely no idea how to do the mechanics.

They are subtle little things, but unless someone asks for advice, just helping them clear the dungeon is usually enough actually.

mentor didn't want to explain anything to the new person, so I started to. Only took them 1-2 boss fights before they began interrupting me and complaining that I'm 'overloading the new person'

Overloading a new person is a valid concern, actually. One of the examples I always return to is when someone tries to teach a level 90 opener and level 90 raid optimization to a level 15 sprout who only has a few abilities unlocked. It's absurd, but people do it, and at a certain point, inundating them with information that isn't going to be relevant for months or years is going to overwhelm and confuse them.

It's also important to weigh up which mechanics are really worth explaining. You could overwhelm them if you tell them every single mechanic in the alliance raid, but if you choose 1 or 2 really important mechanics per fight, it might not overwhelm them as much. The healers can just heal through the less lethal mechanics, while other mechanics may be considerably more obvious than the 2 you choose to explain.

[tsuchii]

Honestly, as long as the party is not wiping, I don't interfere. Quiet and peaceful mentor roulettes are the way to go. I finished all 2000 mentor roulettes and it's just usually just hello's and goodbye's.

The only times I ever really "mentored" are when I get extremes which happens like once every 10-20x.

If I get praetorium or a slow pulling dungeon, I just endure the 30-minute penalty as a DPS. No need to be pissy. The exit option and the penalty system are there for a reason.

I think the bad rep is not really coming from duties but from the Novice Network. That chat space is home of some of the most annoying people in the game, and not even all of them are battle mentors. Avoid it at all cost. All the information you need is readily available on Google anyway.