this raid tier is the worst yet

[SilversLyu]

P3S was a mistake

[Silver-Strider]

Not overly fond of the body checks honestly.

[TomsYoungerBro]

A Tier
P10 - Very fun for tanks other than Harrowing Hell which was annoying on min ilv and with SCH/AST as the healers. This fight could have been in S tier if Harrowing was balanced better for comps without WHM/SGE. Yes it is possible with SCH/AST. It is also very very annoying with SCH/AST. This one might only be above P4 P1 due to recency bias but we'll see.

Rarely play healer so curious why WHM > AST for HH? SGE > SCH makes sense because of panhaima, but maybe there is more to that as well?

[Silver-Strider]

Rarely play healer so curious why WHM > AST for HH? SGE > SCH makes sense because of panhaima, but maybe there is more to that as well?

I suspect Lilybell since it fills the same niche as Panhaima

[TomsYoungerBro]

I suspect Lilybell since it fills the same niche as Panhaima

Ah of course! thanks it completely slipped my mind xD

[Tsumdere]

They have shifted the difficulty from a mix of mechanics and DPS to just mechanics. All mechanics instantly kill you whereas previously you could get damage downs (technically they still do if you're a tank or have giga shield) which was punishment enough when the DPS checks were tuned properly. This makes things frustrating to prog.

Compare Shadowkeeper (sorry not sorry) who had a mix of instant kill/body check mechanics/damage downs to Pandaemonium which is almost exclusively instakills. Nothing in Pandaemonium is harder to understand or execute. I would even say Shadowkeeper was much harder mechanically. But Pandaemonium is harder to prog/clear because it's so punishing.

I personally feel like raid tiers are becoming harder and harder to clear, and yet more of them are boring as sin (hello P6/7/9) because they've stripped out DPS skills and removed avenues for skill expression (raise god/making up for damage downs on other DPS/sacrifice plays).

[drtasteyummy]

I don't know in what World you live in that all the mechanics instant kill you, P9 has tons of damage down, P10 has quite some and so does P11, heck even P12 has more than enough damage downs plus this tier was way easier than last tier. The only bad thing to say about this is that P9 and P10 play pretty slow.

[Ivtrix]

I would move proto carbuncle down one tier and move p8s p1 up one tier but otherwise I think the list is pretty accurate

[Eorzean_username]

The increasing tendency towards heavy so-called "body checks" definitely make PF'ing feel more headachey than usual, at least in my personal / anecdotal experience.

I don't personally mind having "uneven" performance amongst the 8 players in a PF, as long as everyone is "obviously trying", and the encounter still gets cleared. And so in the past, it felt possible to compensate a bit more for moderate errors. Maybe I'm just viewing the past through tinted glasses, though.

And I guess there's an argument to be made that allowing people to simply "brute force" through mechanic segments is "unhealthy design"... but I guess the other side of it would be that understanding when, how, and where to apply "alternative tactics" to still slide through a clear is also rewarding in its own way, since even "salvageable" checks aren't always saved if you make the wrong move at the wrong moment.

[Lieri]

For the current tier the dps check is nothing. You can have 7 deaths and still clear p9s using week 2 gears plus Ex weapon, if you managed to get past levin and lc2. If you make those mechanics easier to recover from, on top of the fact that they are already recoverable with using heal LB if 1 healer is alive, then the fight becomes too easy. We are not even talking about later weeks when people can probably kill the boss during lc2.

P10s is the same. P11s is basically sleepwalking. I havent touched P12s but based on what Im seeing its not as crazy as P8s. Gears are already easier to obtain (less weeks required), we now have 900 tomes plus ex weapon before Savage starts. The dps check becomes easier than last tier, do we really need to make fights easier?

This game's raiding has always been like that. Its not very complicated when it comes into skill check. Its always been about wall mechanics that requires group effort and/or enrage timer that also requires combined group damage to beat. If they want to add fights thay require more personal skill than group skill, that is not about killing mobs like palace of the dead then they need to add a new game mode. Thats the solution, not by nerfing 8 man savage even further.