So does every hate new PLD now?

[Rithy255]

I still hate the loss of rotational Goring Blade, but mostly like the rest of the changes.


Ideally, I would have preferred to replace the Divine Might procs with Clemency, Holy Shock, and Holy Circle having variable --based on %MP-- potency, cast times (0 seconds at full MP), and MP costs (e.g., 1k to 4k), with Req making them free-casts that count as if casted from 100% MP.

I feel like the magic healing on Paladin is kind of ugh, theirs so much of it and the sustain is really strong but at the same time it feels useless when you don't need it and out of your hands, Removing Pld's self healing from magic and reducing/changing Shelltrons sustain up for more controlled sustain on Something like Clemency (that's also ocgd) would be really nice for MT/OT PLD.

Right now (In terms of "healing") it feels like PLD's more selfish then warrior? with it's healing which is kind of weird.. Not to say paladin lacks group/target healing I just think the Self sustain could be toned down alot for targetable sustain such as getting a free clemency here and there every minute, Warrior should also stop having teammate healing personally, also reduce its aoe sustain capabilities even if that's not important for savage ect. Healers shouldn't expect to afk because they got funny infinite self healing axe tank.

[Shurrikhan]

Right now (In terms of "healing") it feels like PLD's more selfish then warrior? with it's healing which is kind of weird.. Not to say paladin lacks group/target healing I just think the Self sustain could be toned down alot for targetable sustain such as getting a free clemency here and there every minute, Warrior should also stop having teammate healing personally, also reduce its aoe sustain capabilities even if that's not important for savage ect. Healers shouldn't expect to afk because they got funny infinite self healing axe tank.

Aye. I'd always thought Warrior's self-healing should be more akin to just its party-support in XI -- as a sort of strikeleader / warleader / bannerlord. Instead it's just had this insane amount of single-target ally-targetable healing available to it for the last couple expansions...

(Copying over that one post from the other thread real quick.)

I'd like to rein back any and all forms of sustain that neither come at cost nor have any real means of optimization to them (beyond AoEing where you might otherwise ST in 2-target scenarios, in BW/NF's case):

Warrior

• Undo the lastest potency buffs to Storm's Eye, Storm's Path, and Inner Chaos.
• Inner Beast is now granted at level 30, and Thrill of Battle instead at 35.
• Further nerf Storm's Path and Storm's Eye potency by 20 prior to Melee Mastery. Siphon that potency per minute into Inner Beast (e.g., to 440 potency, up from 330). (Fell Cleave was already buffed, so it can remain as is.) Buff Steel Cyclone to 220 potency.
• Axe the self-heal on Storm's Path. Have Inner Beast instead heal for 440 cure potency and Steel Cyclone hit for 110 potency per target. Fell Cleave and Decimate retain, but do not increase, these bonuses.
• Return the per-hit flat self-healing component of BW/NF to, again, healing for 50% of damage dealt. Let it rip on Fell Cleave + Primal Rush + Inner Chaos x2, but simply comboing should hardly do squat.

Paladin

• Shelltron replaced by Aegis, which grants a barrier equal to 10% of the target's maximum HP and grants 25% mitigation while the barrier is active (and lingering for 1 second thereafter).
• Aegis is now granted at level 30, and Spirit's Within at 35.
• The level 62 skill, Intervention, is now instead simply a trait that allows Aegis to be used on others and causes it to last up to 2 second longer for each defensive ability you have active.
• Clemency is now granted at level 40. Prominence is instead a class skill, granted automatically. Chivalry has been moved to level 40.
• At level 58, Paladin now instead augments Aegis with two additional effects: "Grants MP upon fully absorbing an enemy hit" and "Grants Silver Shield | Silver Shield: Your next use of Clemency will not trigger the global recast time."
• Shelltron Mastery, now Aegis Mastery, upgrades Aegis to Divine Aegis, which causes a second barrier to take the first's place when broken, and extends the maximum duration to 8 seconds.
• Cover no longer consumes gauge by default and now grants an aura to the covered ally that mimics the total multiplicative mitigation of the Paladin's active defensive skills. (This leaves a buff also on the Paladin itself, which causes the transferred mitigation to updates whenever there is a change to the Paladin's defenses.)
• Cover now also grants the Paladin a stack of Oath of the Ceaseless Guardian. This allows the use of Guardian while Cover is on cooldown, swapping the hotkey's use automatically. Guardian is otherwise identical to Cover but has no cooldown and instead costs 50 Gauge and a charge of Oath of the Ceaseless Guardian. Stacks last for 2 minutes.
• Divine Magic Mastery II removed.
• Blade of Faith, Blade of Truth, and Blade of Valor no longer cost MP (since that would otherwise reduce one's cure potency available per minute).

Dark Knight

• Bloodspiller swaps places with Salted Earth, therefore being introduced much earlier in the game.
• Abyssal Drain swaps places with Dark Mind, therefore being introduced much earlier in the game.
• Bloodspiller now heals for its damage dealt, but Souleater no longer heals.
• Bloodspiller now deals 40% of its damage to all enemies in a 3-yalm radius around its target.
• Quietus now deals 50% greater potency to its first target struck (300 to first target, 200 to all others).
• Quietus now inflicts its victims with Quietus for 12 seconds, causing them to grant the Dark Knight 100 MP each time they are struck by an attack from the Dark Knight.
• Carve and Spit now inflicts its victims with Carved Soul for 12 seconds, causing them to grant the Dark Knight 100 MP each time they are struck by an attack and causing them to leave a shade instantly and another if killed while afflicted by Carved Soul. The Dark Knight can move through these to gain 10% HP and 10% MP.
• Abyssal Drain now inflicts a debuff for 10 seconds that causes the Dark Knight to heal for 25% of damage dealt to enemies and to instantly restore 10% of the Dark Knight's HP if the victim dies while under the effect of Abyssal Drain.
• Dark Arts has been revised. It now nullifies a granular amount of MP cost and is simply displayed on your MP bar alike to a barrier effect (on the HP bar).
• At level 30, Dark Knight gains access to Shadowskin, which consumes up to 1500 to 3000 MP (using half your current MP, therefore reaching full effect at 60% MP) to reduce incoming damage by 20% for 3 to 6 seconds, based on MP spent. For every % of max HP's worth of damage nullified gain 1% max MP's worth of Dark Arts, to a maximum of the original amount of MP spent.
• The Blackest Night is now an upgrade to Shadowskin, retaining the 20% mitigation effect (though the duration can no longer fade before the barrier does), and now consumes 1500 to 3000 MP (using half your current MP) in order to generate a barrier of %HP equal to 80% of %MP spent (3000 MP = 30% of MP = 30% eHP). For every % of max HP's worth of damage nullified gain 1% max MP's worth of Dark Arts, to a maximum of the original amount of MP spent.
• Delirium no longer grants free casts of Bloodspiller or Quietus. Instead, for 12 seconds, it increases Attack Speed by 15% and doubles MP and HP generated while halving the Blood costs of Bloodspiller and Quietus.
• Carve and Spit and Abyssal Drain each gain a second charge and have their cooldown reduced to 40 seconds at level 84.
• Dark Mind now reduces all damage taken by 10% (and magic damage taken by a further 10%).
• Oblation is now an upgrade to Dark Mind, allowing it to be used on any ally, with a second charge and only a 40-second recast time.
• Carve and Spit, Abyssal Drain, and Shadowbringer now each cost 3k MP. They have been slightly buffed in compensation; the remainder of the lost potency is covered only via DRK's additional MP generation.
• Living Shadow now grants a temporary charge each of Abyssal Drain, Carve and Spit, and Shadowbringer, to be used via the Living Shadow. These temporary charges take priority over your own, have no animation lock / uptime cost, and cost no MP, though they will have only half the normal damage. If not consumed before Living Shadow ends, they will each be rapidly cast in succession when 1 second of duration remains. While Living Shadow is active, it will also duplicate each of your attacks, for half damage. It is now summoned far more quickly/responsively.

Gunbreaker

• Rather than Brutal Shell granting a barrier, Burst Strike and Fated Circle now afflicts its target with a suppression effect, causing its auto-attack damage to be reduced by the lesser of 50% until having consumed damage equal to that dealt by Burst Strike / Fated Circle. This effect does not stack or accumulate.
• Continuation and Hypervelocity inflict an identical effect to that of Burst Strike, but accumulating. This stacks with the effect of Burst Strike.
• Heart of Corundom is no longer an upgrade to Heart of Stone, but rather a secondary action. Heart of Stone Mastery upgrades the mitigation of Heart of Stone directly, while Heart of Corundom, which replaces HoS while HoS is active and on cooldown, causes the beneficiary to heal for their damage mitigated by HoS over the last 3 seconds. (In this way, it becomes more timing dependent, rather than less.)

[Reimmi]

I feel like the magic healing on Paladin is kind of ugh, theirs so much of it and the sustain is really strong but at the same time it feels useless when you don't need it and out of your hands, Removing Pld's self healing from magic and reducing/changing Shelltrons sustain up for more controlled sustain on Something like Clemency (that's also ocgd) would be really nice for MT/OT PLD.

Right now (In terms of "healing") it feels like PLD's more selfish then warrior? with it's healing which is kind of weird.. Not to say paladin lacks group/target healing I just think the Self sustain could be toned down alot for targetable sustain such as getting a free clemency here and there every minute, Warrior should also stop having teammate healing personally, also reduce its aoe sustain capabilities even if that's not important for savage ect. Healers shouldn't expect to afk because they got funny infinite self healing axe tank.

Maybe it'd be op but why not change cover into an ability like sages kardion?
You can heal your other tank instead as an off tank or swap it on to people to give them heals with your burst
cover is already so incredibly situational when intervention generally saves the player too without you taking full damage

[Shurrikhan]

Maybe it'd be op but why not change cover into an ability like sages kardion?
You can heal your other tank instead as an off tank or swap it on to people to give them heals with your burst
cover is already so incredibly situational when intervention generally saves the player too without you taking full damage

I mean, it still doesn't really fix the simple fact that untimeable cure-ppgcd is, well, kinda boring. The only optimization available to it is to try to take sufficient damage before it starts going that it doesn't overheal. Remove half of even that component, though, and it's arguably even duller.

That is to say, if anything, the fact that our Req actions only heals us makes it more interesting than otherwise, since it gives us some added complexity to our swapping in and out of MT position, at least.

[Marxam]

Maybe it'd be op but why not change cover into an ability like sages kardion?

I would honestly prefer if they made Cover a role skill that all tanks can access. The utility and creativity you can have when both tanks can use Cover far outweighs its exclusivity to PLD. On that note, they really need to rework blocking in this game so you don't get situations like in DSR. I also feel like blocking is heavily underused as another form of ehp mitigation that is exclusive to PLD similar to how WAR has ToB and DRK has TBN. They had an interesting idea back in ARR with different shields offering different mitigations that paired well with Bulwark (which we ironically got back).

I'm not saying go back to that but the synergy of your equipment affecting your cds is something only WAR has taken full advantage of. I still feel like WAR is the best designed job in the game because of its interaction with its cds, in relation to its gameplay loop. You only need to go back to HW when STR accessories pushed WAR over the top to see my point. Maybe one day the devs will realize that blocking can be as strong as TBN or stronger if they decide to make blocking additive instead of multiplicative. Hypothetically in that scenario, if you pair Bulwark with Sentinel and blocking is a 20-30% mitigation, suddenly the value of healing decreases when you are literally taking 50-60% less dmg. Though I'm sure the glory days of busted defensives are long behind us.