Revelations from Patch 6.4: The Dark Throne

[Denishia]

Thinking back on Voidsent domains- in 6.2 we learned that they are shaped by the heart of the voidsent that they belong to and are either created by a powerful one or captured by another upon their defeat. These domains act as islands of solid(ish) reality in the formlessness of the rest of the Thirteenth. And it might be necessary to open a voidgate back onto the Source; we're told that the geographical locations align but we've yet to have an example of traveling through a Voidgate to a location on the Thirteenth that isn't a domain. Amount of aether isn't outright stated to be what's generating the domain's formation, I don't think, but it's the logical conclusion. So the first question: is the Moon of the Thirteenth operating under the same rules as the planet below - is it just a domain that only held its shape because of the aether of the shard of Zodiark(and now Zeromus)? Or will it retain its physical stability if Zeromus's aether was scattered into all the component souls? Basically- will that giant voidgate in the crater be use-able after Zeromus's defeat for further Shard-travel?

my other musing was on Scathach - did her domain stay up while she was imprisoned on the Source? Did all the imprisoned high-ranking Voidsent sealed during the time of the War of the Magi keep their domains up even without their presence? All that Free Real Estate. There is something interesting and fun in that most of the Fifth Astral Era Voidsent had names from the Ulster Cycle: Scathach, Conla, Cuchulain, Forgall, Ferdiad, whereas nowadays its dominated by Italian from The Divine Comedy. Language shift over time or different regions having different cultures reflective of what had originally been on the Thirteenth? Coerthas on the First was more German than French, so Italian instead? Or were they the Irish?

[Kesey]

Gridania is at a very bad place of "Well, everyone here is familiar with Shinto so we're not going to explain it, it's all fine because the Elementals are the kami and we know the delicate balance between mankind and kami" and then Othard took all of that and actually explored and explained it and left Gridania as a "well... just don't think about it"

#JusticeForGridania

No Gridania is supposed to be a pre-medieval German town. The elementals are worshiped like the Germanic tribes that worshipped nature. "The elementals" aren't Shintoism or kami, it's more like a sentient will of mother nature. The Padjal white mages are more aligned with druids that led that religion who spoke to the people the will of nature.

Did you also not find it funny that all the "christian" holiday events get held in Girdania? You know the same christian holidays that were adopted by the church to replace the pagan holidays practiced by the same people following a germanic nature religion.

[Kesey]

Not even just being ignored on an economic level, when have we seen Gridania shift on any of its existing racial-demographic-oppression that isn't just "yeah that happens, yeah we ignore it, tough"?
Multiple quests that touch on Duskwight elezen and Moonkeeper miqo'te being treated like absolute crap by every societal level above them, but the city-state doesn't even... really get that much criticism over it? Compared to Limsa getting their asses called out for directly causing their problems with the kobolds and sahagin?

I'm not really sure Gridania getting economic growth is their sort of thing. A more fitting story line would for them to send botantists aboard to help planet and cultivate plant life destroyed in the final days. Thereby helping a suffering population find peace with nature.

[Cleretic]

No Gridania is supposed to be a pre-medieval German town. The elementals are worshiped like the Germanic tribes that worshipped nature. "The elementals" aren't Shintoism or kami, it's more like a sentient will of mother nature. The Padjal white mages are more aligned with druids that led that religion who spoke to the people the will of nature.

Did you also not find it funny that all the "christian" holiday events get held in Girdania? You know the same christian holidays that were adopted by the church to replace the pagan holidays practiced by the same people following a germanic nature religion.

Actually there's a hell of a lot of Shintoism and kami in the depictions of the Elementals and the conjurers, hearers and White Mages that tend to them. It's basically Shinto beliefs dressed up in European fae story aesthetics (the specifics brought up to me were actually more Celtic than Germanic though)--which generally aren't a world away in the first place in terms of personifying and respecting nature, but you can see the minute specifics come from Shintoism.

Which is also why we won't fight or antagonize the Elementals; the story comes form a place of general cultural respect for that concept. I know nobody mentioned that, but I feel it's worth saying.

[SannaR]

More SB duty support tidbits. Still not sure why they didn't add all of SB this patch. Anyways either Gosetsu and Hien have never seen a stone golem before or they're commenting on the stone golem like devices that halt your progression leading up to the 2nd boss. As Lyse only says something like aught Stone Golems at the point those two do so. The final boss of the 61 dungeon according to everyone's favorite Elezen pirate captain is a ghost of a siren who became the stuff of legend. Also the area with the cells are in fact jail cells as that island had been used as a jail. Either I missed the 2nd boss of Castrum Abania being Garlean or I just never tanked it enough to get a good look. A sort of funny thing is when you run Ala Mhigo with Alphinaud as post next to last boss he makes a comment about never wanting to experience being popped out of his body ever again. Raubahn on there other hand makes more of a "I never expected to ever see my body prone" line. So sure he didn't enjoy it but to me it comes off as a huh that was kind of interesting.

[MikkoAkure]

No Gridania is supposed to be a pre-medieval German town. The elementals are worshiped like the Germanic tribes that worshipped nature. "The elementals" aren't Shintoism or kami, it's more like a sentient will of mother nature. The Padjal white mages are more aligned with druids that led that religion who spoke to the people the will of nature.

It hasn't come up really since 1.0, but the original Gridania lore established that elementals are everywhere and in everything, not just in the Twelveswood. There was a quest where a hearer asked an ink elemental about the person who wrote them onto a piece of paper. Not sure if that's been retconned or just hasn't been discussed or delved into since, but Gridania was at least originally set up on elementals=kami.

Elementals still exist as combat enemies outside of the Twelveswood so there's still that at least.

Did you also not find it funny that all the "christian" holiday events get held in Girdania? You know the same christian holidays that were adopted by the church to replace the pagan holidays practiced by the same people following a germanic nature religion.

I don't think that means anything. Christmas, Easter, and Halloween are mostly in Gridania because the environment suits the area better. Some of the first ARR holidays were in all 3 cities at once. The first solo-city ARR holiday I can remember was Valentines Day in Limsa only. And I'm pretty sure there was a Limsa-only Halloween too because I remember a cutscene with the Great Pumpkin there.

I think it just ended up that way rather than there being a purposeful reason. Ul'dah and Limsa aren't connected to Japanese culture at all but they monopolize the Japanese holidays now.


Anyway, the biggest problems Gridania has in its storytelling is that it's very exclusive, isolationist, and has no ports. So it's not going to be the center of anything at all like how Limsa Lominsa and Ul'dah are. People don't gather there, so there's no reason for wide-ranging quests to start there either, except for the end of HW/beginning of SB and only because something was happening in the Garlean-conquered parts of the forest and the enemy was right at their doorstep. Now that's been taken care of, there's absolutely no reason for the game's overall narrative to go there again unless the writers force it.

And an issue I personally have is the fact that the writers decided to write off every monster or supernatural phenomena and even migratory birds for some reason as "an Ancient did it" really diminishes the world in my view. Ancients being responsible for the Elementals really did them dirty and I preferred them as beings that just naturally existed in this world but gathered in the Twelveswood due to the amount of aether.

[Cleretic]

Elementals still exist as combat enemies outside of the Twelveswood so there's still that at least.

Not quite; in 1.0 they were (and famously were level 90 in a game with a level 50 cap), but in the live game the sprites seem to have stepped in to fill that role, maybe to make clearer that distinction.

Elementals in the live game have only appeared outside Gridania in Eureka and Elpis, not being hostile either time. An enemy using (one of) their models appeared in the Aetherfont under a different name, too, I'm not sure what to make of that one.

[Iscah]

Elementals in the live game have only appeared outside Gridania in Eureka and Elpis, not being hostile either time. An enemy using (one of) their models appeared in the Aetherfont under a different name, too, I'm not sure what to make of that one.

The "ice slave" adds from Rabanastre's first boss also use the elemental model.

[YianKutku]

I think my biggest disappointment with the middle part of the MSQ in Garlemald was the lack of any mention of what happened in the 6.0 combined role quests.

It's even relevant, because the same lessons are taught there as with what happened in the 6.4 MSQ. Garlemald needs to figure out what they want to do from now on, as a sovereign nation, whatever it may be. Nero even gave a whole speech about how "Garlemald did not rise to grandeur from complacency in the present or rumination in the past. We live for the future. It is in our blood." Whether or not this is actually true or part of Nero's personal delusions, it's still a view expressed in the game dialogue in the usual philosophizing cutscene tone, so it's something that we're supposed to at least consider. And seeing the same sentiments repeated here means either players will feel that this is a retreading of old ground in 6.4, or the combined role quests are retreading old ground after 6.4.

There's also no dialogue that I can find regarding the "former senators" of Garlemald who went to the Moon. They're even still there (in the Carrotorium, going through Loporrit shock), but their existence has been forgotten by the senators still in Garlemald?

Unrelated to everything else, but for the 6.x MSQ in general, I've been replaying the FFVI Pixel Remaster, and I'm finding it amusing how the description "half-human woman tries to understand emotions and social interaction, by asking everyone she meets what is love, regardless of appropriate context" matches both stories.

EDIT: (forgot to mention, but just reminded of it)

Pandemonium:

When we learned that Athena allegedly used a part of Azys Lla to rebuild Pandemonium in the present day, did anyone else port into Azys Lla to check which portion it was?

I did look around, especially in the Flagship area around the Aetherochemical Research Facility dungeon entrance, but I admit I'd never really looked at the place before, so I honestly have no idea if anything was missing. Or if anything was put back when we finish the raid series.

[SannaR]

Island Sanctuary rank 15 quest

Just give us a Volleyball or Blitzball mini game already dang it. I want that not feeling great ice bomb ball. Also what the heck is up with Ishgardian fashions? Why is it always steampunk?