Revelations from Patch 6.4: The Dark Throne

[Seraphor]

Pandaemonium

Tell us you're doing a sequel without telling us you're doing a sequel.
Leaving Claudien with the One Ring his precious the Heart of Sabik has to be the worst choice we've made since we tossed Nidhogg's eyes off the bridge, and we can't even excuse it as a hasty decision in the moment.

Absolutely

Oh we're just going to leave him with the ancient alien device that corrupts everyone who touches it including ancients? Ok then... I'm sure everything will be fine.

And Themis's farewell felt incomplete. He was supposedly created from "Elidibus's soul" found in the aetherial sea, so has to be in his post-Endwalker state to have ended up there, but only seems to have the knowledge level of his earlier Pandaemonium-era self besides a few vague notions of what he even describes as his future.

This kinda makes sense. Elidibus already had severe memory issues being the heart of Zodiark for millennia. The whole 'regaining your memories on death' thing was only ever explained in relation to artificially instigated memory loss, such as Kairos, or in the reincarnated soul not having the memories of previous lives. Elidibus experienced a wholly unique form of memory degradation over a sustained period of time, rather than 'events' that removed memories.

[Lunaxia]

Pandaemonium

Lahabrea's final speech to us in Pandaemonium seemed odd, like he already knew everything that would happen between us, which he shouldn't and didn't.

And Themis's farewell felt incomplete. He was supposedly created from "Elidibus's soul" found in the aetherial sea, so has to be in his post-Endwalker state to have ended up there, but only seems to have the knowledge level of his earlier Pandaemonium-era self besides a few vague notions of what he even describes as his future.

I'm glad someone else noticed these inconsistencies, because they drove me crazy. I get the feeling even the writers lost track of which characterisation each incarnation was supposed to have by that point, honestly.

[Iscah]

Absolutely

Oh we're just going to leave him with the ancient alien device that corrupts everyone who touches it including ancients? Ok then... I'm sure everything will be fine.

Indeed.

He's already talking about taking to his work with renewed fervour... why are we not staging an intervention already, or at least giving a warning to his assistants?

Another couple of thoughts on Pandæmonium:

Had anyone previously suggested that the black auracite could have corrupted Lahabrea's mind, in conjunction with what we had seen in Ivalice? It seems like an obvious connection in hindsight and yet I can't remember it having been suggested before.

Also I have to note with some smugness that (unless he comes back in the sequel questline) we didn't get some "special promise" from Themis, and it is more likely that his "who did I make a promise to?" line in 5.3 is simply relevant to 5.3 and highlighting that he has lost even the memories we glimpsed earlier in the chapter of him making his vows to the Convocation. I liked that symmetry at the time and I've been saying all along that I didn't want it commandeered into referencing something else.

The timeline for the Heart of Sabik seems off. Lahabrea was there, but then we punched Lahabrea out of Thancred and made him retreat to the void. He might have got back later, but that's still not what we were told happens.

Also, I want to know which "entire sector" of Azys Lla has gone missing. Inside the Aetherochemical Facility maybe?

[Iscah]

One more thing on Pandæmonium:

Erich talks about choosing to defy the Convocation and not become part of the sacrifice to summon Zodiark, which has implications about the "willing sacrifice" previously described. If it is voluntary, there shouldn't be anything wrong with him refusing. Is this awkward translation? What does it say in other languages?

Also, are we supposed to assume that Pandæmonium itself is still out there? Or did Erich simply not conceive that it might cease to be?

[Denishia]

One more thing on Pandæmonium:

Erich talks about choosing to defy the Convocation and not become part of the sacrifice to summon Zodiark, which has implications about the "willing sacrifice" previously described. If it is voluntary, there shouldn't be anything wrong with him refusing. Is this awkward translation? What does it say in other languages?

Also, are we supposed to assume that Pandæmonium itself is still out there? Or did Erich simply not conceive that it might cease to be?

I was just about to bring that line up because it's very interesting (without being remotely surprising to me)

Back in ShB when Emet Selch, known creator of more than one genocidal empire using realworld eugenics rationales to address the player character and who occupied one of the ultimate positions of power in his world asserting that the first two sacrifices were completely voluntary (and the third decidedly not) was always suspect. I still don't think Erichtonios's words imply that the first two were outright coercive or done via conscription. But just as the soldiers in WWI (and others) weren't initially via conscription but peer pressure and societal pressure combined with nationalism and/or religious indoctrination, there was public shaming to refuse (which only compounded the extreme survivor's guilt of the survivors and why they were unwilling to healthily rebuild and look towards stopping Meteion). The only other confirmed Zodiark Sacrifice was Hythlodaeus, who was another government employee that wasn't one of the Convocation. None of the Thirteen are designated to become fuel for Zodiark aside from the one that will be the core piloting it, but a safe extrapolation would be that all Bureau underlings were encouraged to sacrifice themselves for the sake of the star and as to be exemplars to the rest of the city's population. Erichtonios as Lahabrea's son might have even had more pressure not just from his dad but as a public show that the Convocation members were making the same sacrifices that they were asking of others. One would think Erichtonios and other Pandaemonium wardens would be classified as necessary essential workers to keep the horror jail from adding to the Final Days threat - Erich does but his bosses don't.

[SannaR]

One more thing on Pandæmonium:

Erich talks about choosing to defy the Convocation and not become part of the sacrifice to summon Zodiark, which has implications about the "willing sacrifice" previously described. If it is voluntary, there shouldn't be anything wrong with him refusing. Is this awkward translation? What does it say in other languages?

Also, are we supposed to assume that Pandæmonium itself is still out there? Or did Erich simply not conceive that it might cease to be?

That phrasing shows up in Zodiark's codex entry log like twice.

[Denishia]

That phrasing shows up in Zodiark's codex entry log like twice.

"at the order of the Convocation of Fourteen, half of the star's surviving population gave their lives to bring Zodiark into being"

that's ambiguous enough that it could just be the Convocation giving instructions on how to carry out the task of converting souls and aether into primal fuel. I still don't think any actual overt coercion was involved for the first sacrifice and probably the second, but definitely the general desperation and more importantly societal peer pressure on who was urged to make the sacrifice and who wasn't.

My question is did Lahabrea know Erichtonios was defying the Convocation and staying behind or did he think his son was one of the imprisoned in Zodiark? Did he ever run across a shard of his son on either the Source or the many reflection planets he wiped out?

[SannaR]

that's ambiguous enough that it could just be the Convocation giving instructions on how to carry out the task of converting souls and aether into primal fuel. I still don't think any actual overt coercion was involved for the first sacrifice and probably the second, but definitely the general desperation and more importantly societal peer pressure on who was urged to make the sacrifice and who wasn't.

My question is did Lahabrea know Erichtonios was defying the Convocation and staying behind or did he think his son was one of the imprisoned in Zodiark? Did he ever run across a shard of his son on either the Source or the many reflection planets he wiped out?

It definitely is ambiguous. As until now we get oh well people joyously chose to sacrifice themselves. It was all voluntary both times. Yet we get that line and Erichtonios's words of I'm going to be disobeying the convocation and choose to stay and make sure the dangerous crap in the facility don't get out. The whole entry could probably use its own thread cause man did it bring up some questions.

[Cilia]

Been a while...

MSQ

No major surprises. We beat Golbez but he drops Zeromus on us, because of course he does. Couldn't be easy, could it?

... I don't know how much more of this I can take. As someone who never played - or at least finished - IV, most of the references are going over my head and I don't appreciate the fanservice. I get it, I just don't care, and the fact the MSQ is for all intents and purposes in Filler Mode at least through 6.5 leaves me without much reason to play right now. This is a story I'd expect to be a Trial series, not MSQ...

The Garleans and their obstinacy continue to irritate me. They resent having to rely on their former enemies for humanitarian aid they need to survive, but take no initiative toward actually improving their situation - Vrtra (Varshan) has to do that for them as well, and some of them are still too proud to accept the deal without incident. If you want to be part of the international community - and they need to be, at least for the time being - that means swallowing your pride and playing nice with others, but they're too stubborn to do it of their own accord.

Still not sure where 7.0 is headed, or if they're going to have to extend beyond 6.55. Y'shtola keeps giving hints about learning to hop across reflections (other than the First and Thirteenth), there are hints about Corvos, and now there's this mysterious job for Archons Thancred and Urianger are in the know about as well as a letter to Krile.

Pandaemonium

Oh, so Claudien was Erichthonios' reincarnation and Athena imprinted her memory onto the Heart of Sabik to possess him with it.

Cool. Lady, turning into a "god(dess)" was probably the worst mistake you could ever make; we eat "gods" for breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

On the one hand, it was kind of nice they didn't give the villain a buuhuu sob story origin. On the other, I can't agree that Athena would have turned out the same without the Heart of Sabik; there's harboring desires, and then there's acting on them. On the other other, decisive evidence Ancient society wasn't as perfect as Emet-Selch's rosy image would have you believe was also nice.

Don't get why people are saying Athena was hot. Uh... pretty enough face and eyes, I guess, but her personality puts any notions of attraction to definitive rest. If I'm gonna simp over a video game gal, Purah's new look in Tears of the Kingdom is a much better choice than a genderflipped Hojo.

Anyway, this story didn't do much for me emotionally because I'm not all that invested in the Ancients. Cool enough fights and the music still slaps, so that's nice.

Gimme a new Manderville weapon already...

[Cassar]

I need some help clearing up some confusion I have with Pandaemonium...

In the very end, when we hear Eric's call for help with Pandaemonium, was that the same call that we received in the beginning? (back in 6.0) It couldn't have been, right? Because Eric had already met us when he recorded that in the crystal... Someone please help me lol

Also...

Indeed.

He's already talking about taking to his work with renewed fervour... why are we not staging an intervention already, or at least giving a warning to his assistants?

Also I have to note with some smugness that (unless he comes back in the sequel questline) we didn't get some "special promise" from Themis, and it is more likely that his "who did I make a promise to?" line in 5.3 is simply relevant to 5.3 and highlighting that he has lost even the memories we glimpsed earlier in the chapter of him making his vows to the Convocation. I liked that symmetry at the time and I've been saying all along that I didn't want it commandeered into referencing something else.

This is very interesting, could you expand on it further? What do you think the promise was?

And last but not least

Someone brought it up earlier but yeah, how DID Lahabrea forget about us? I just realized this, maybe I missed somehting?