Suggestion for NIN ability Huraijin

[Renathras]

I would really love to hear your definition of button bloat to have a good laugh.
...
Even if you wanted to use your warped definition of button bloat to claim that NIN is most bloated, keep in mind that PLD still exists.

NIN has a lot of buttons - in sheer numbers - and a ton of those are needed in the single target rotation, meaning there's not a lot you can "leave off". It doesn't really have anything like "Cure 1/Physic/Benefic" that is pointless to even put on your bar. It has a lot of overall buttons for people to try to fit on their hotbars in vaguely ergonomic ways (this is more a controller problem than a keyboard one, granted), and there's very little that can be dropped because of them having use cases.

Contrast with something like RDM to see a Job that DOESN'T have button bloat, largely because its buttons change with context (Enchanted melee strikes, Holy/Flare/Scorch/Resolution for examples)

The argument with NIN isn't that it's buttons aren't USEFUL (there are certainly Jobs with bloat that could just be removed and they don't do anything meaningful), but NIN suffers from...if you prefer, "button inflation", as the buttons are all useful, it just has arguably too many of them (this is also true of Jobs like SCH and AST which have most of their buttons being useful to them, but just has a high VOLUME/number of them). The issue of Jobs with button inflation is that it's even harder to find things to cut. It's easy to say, for example, PLD should just have Goring Blade's damage added to Requiescat or the Blades magic combo, since the extra button doesn't have any meaningful gameplay purpose (you ALWAYS use it in your FoF+Req window), and likewise for GNB's Sonic Break. But with NIN, there's far less fat to trim. It has a lot of bulk, but that bulk is mostly essential muscle, not nonessential fat that can be trimmed away.

Indeed, that's why I point out Huraijin as part of that fat, since there's very little otherwise TO trim, but NIN arguably needs some trimming due to the sheer volume of abilities it has. I agree it's not the worst offender in the game, but it's definitely up there on the button inflation front.

...also, you left off LB and Potion, so that's 35 total buttons. Which is a lot.

[Deo14]

NIN has a lot of buttons - in sheer numbers - and a ton of those are needed in the single target rotation, meaning there's not a lot you can "leave off". It doesn't really have anything like "Cure 1/Physic/Benefic" that is pointless to even put on your bar. It has a lot of overall buttons for people to try to fit on their hotbars in vaguely ergonomic ways (this is more a controller problem than a keyboard one, granted), and there's very little that can be dropped because of them having use cases.

NIN is really nothing out of ordinary. Counting every single ability + pot + LB, he has 35. From random jobs I've got counted, PLD has 37, SAM 36, DRK and SCH 35, BLM 31, even SMN which is mocked for being braindead has 27 buttons. NIN is really average in this regard, if you have problem with this, then you should get keybinds which are more comfortable for you, because complaints about number of buttons are rare, and are especially rare from people who actually do put in effort into their gameplay. Remember that there are special mice for MMORPGs, this is nothing unusual, too hard or complicated.

Contrast with something like RDM to see a Job that DOESN'T have button bloat, largely because its buttons change with context (Enchanted melee strikes, Holy/Flare/Scorch/Resolution for examples)

Which is why I'm personally not fan of RDM or SMN. But that's fine, not all jobs should be for everyone.

The argument with NIN isn't that it's buttons aren't USEFUL (there are certainly Jobs with bloat that could just be removed and they don't do anything meaningful), but NIN suffers from...if you prefer, "button inflation", as the buttons are all useful, it just has arguably too many of them (this is also true of Jobs like SCH and AST which have most of their buttons being useful to them, but just has a high VOLUME/number of them). The issue of Jobs with button inflation is that it's even harder to find things to cut. It's easy to say, for example, PLD should just have Goring Blade's damage added to Requiescat or the Blades magic combo, since the extra button doesn't have any meaningful gameplay purpose (you ALWAYS use it in your FoF+Req window), and likewise for GNB's Sonic Break. But with NIN, there's far less fat to trim. It has a lot of bulk, but that bulk is mostly essential muscle, not nonessential fat that can be trimmed away.

So where do you think we should draw the line? I really don't see this complaint often, so I would dare to say that even current PLD's 37 is fine. Another NIN specific counterpoint - having more colorful and interesting buttons which are part of your main rotation is great, because without them, let's say without Kassatsu and Meisui, it would be very bland, since NIN has filler with just a boring 1-2-3, 1-2-4.

I don't play NIN often, and as it seems like you don't either. From what I've heard from actual NIN mains, is that they love the busy burst. So why should we take that from them? Just play the jobs you like and hope some genius who doesn't even play the job won't ruin it because "it's too hard". Everything is hard if you don't learn it.

Indeed, that's why I point out Huraijin as part of that fat, since there's very little otherwise TO trim, but NIN arguably needs some trimming due to the sheer volume of abilities it has. I agree it's not the worst offender in the game, but it's definitely up there on the button inflation front.

...also, you left off LB and Potion, so that's 35 total buttons. Which is a lot.

You should just bind very situational or infrequent buttons in less comfortable buttons, that's what I do. Before I switched to ST/AoE stances, I used to have SAM's Ikishoten and other long CD skills on Shift + 123. Obviously not the most convenient buttons, but clicking them few times per fight is really nothing hard. 35 buttons is really not that lot, especially since half of them are situational or infrequent.