Dragon Sight change - Just remove positionals already

[ZiraZ]

No, because positionals add nothing.

You still have not posted proof you can do all 100% positionals on PS5 from the other thread after you said it was super easy.

[Keichi]

Why the f are people complaining about this nice addition?

The eye is only for 20 seconds (and 1-2 seconds can be allready lost before you start the next attack + potentiell movement). By this time should the drg only be able to use this addition for 2-3 attacks with position (the only move that need position are attack 4 and 5). Esspecial, if you use the other attacks in between.
Other melee are probally even not able to use so much more the position attacks.

Together with True north are that only 40 seconds. With a CD of nearly 2 minutes (maybe it is in real faster, based on when you use wich skill).
That mean, that there are probally enough time, where you need to do the positionals (esspecial, if you dont think about true north).

Yes, remove it completly can be nice. Whe had free space for other skills (if they create New skill buttons). And, they are a pain in solo fights. But, there isnt any need to complain about it in this way.

The problem i see more, with this eyes are, that the drg has less a reason, to choice a non meele DD.
They are allready the main targets, as much i see it. But, sometimes are BLM the targets to.
This addition shift the focus more to the dd. Because, it can help him more (i have 0 Plan, how much it truely matter in dmg, if i choice a weaker meele or a Black mage).

But, in summery, is this a nice change, that they maked (i only want it easier, to choice the target, let me marker him earlier, like the dancer)

[Mikey_R]

If you just look at positionals as something in a vacuum, then yes, they are going to seem like busy work, however, the value of them comes from landing the positionals whilst dodging boss mechanics. With this in mind, the fact the fights have changed to in recent times makes the skill of dodging around mechanics to hit the positional less satisfying to pull off.

With hit boxes being so large, you never really disengage from the boss, so you don't have to think about positioning yourself in such a way you dodge mechanics, but also put yourself in a favourable position so that, when you gap close in, you can land your positional, maybe there is a way to dodge it inside the bosses hitbox in such a way you can keep the positionals. The anticipating of the next mechanic, who it could potentially hit and positioning yourself to give the best odds of landing it etc. All these things are extra considerations you needed to take. It is an extra layer on top of just dodge mechanic.

However, there is something else to consider and that is the ready availability of nullifying the positional requirements. That fact you can so easily just make them a non factor is also going to diminish the value people get from them. Why take the extra time to think when you can just ignore part of the problem. The Dragon Sight change is just something else to add onto that pile. I don't know if there are any situations where you wanted to use true north but couldn't because of burst, but could you not have just worked around the boss and the mechanics?

As for the comment about tying it to job gauges, guess what, that is how it was before EW and people still had issues. So going back to that isn't going to prevent people from wanting positional removed.

As for fight design, it has been said, but it is worth stating again. There is no evidence that having a boss with no positional requirements allows for boss designs/mechanics that that couldn't have done with positionals. As for the whole of Bozja, you have to remember, melees can tank with the right setup (and I have tanked DR as a monk before so I know it is possible) so you need to be able to perform even under those circumstances. if it was a normal duty where you were forced to have a standard party composition, I can say with 99% certainty, the bosses would have had positional requirements.

So, in short, the reason positionals feel unsatisfying is because they are being devalued constantly. Positionals need to come back as something you need to think about. However, this does NOT mean every melee job should be loaded with positionals. There should be a range, Monk having the most, being on pretty much every GCD and Reaper ,who I believe, has the least. This also wouldn't stop them from adding in a melee with no positionals, lets get the whole spectrum out there so that someone can find something.

People are always complaining about dumbing the game down, or everything feels homogenised. Removing positionals is just going down that same route.

[Ransu]

You still have not posted proof you can do all 100% positionals on PS5 from the other thread after you said it was super easy.

Why would I go back to an old raid that no one does anymore just to prove a point? I have better things to do.

If it makes you feel any better though here's a screenshot of my logs from that tier https://i.imgur.com/Q59GjvM.png

I'm no week 1/world first player, but this game aint that hard.

As for fight design, it has been said, but it is worth stating again. There is no evidence that having a boss with no positional requirements allows for boss designs/mechanics that that couldn't have done with positionals.

P2S straight up would not work if you had to do positionals and it was one of the more fun/unique fights that tier. Players would lose their collective shit trying to do positionals on that fight because it would essentially be impossible to even complete half your positionals.

[ZiraZ]

Why would I go back to an old raid that no one does anymore just to prove a point? I have better things to do.

If it makes you feel any better though here's a screenshot of my logs from that tier https://i.imgur.com/Q59GjvM.png

I'm no week 1/world first player, but this game aint that hard.

yeah I did ask a month ago
new ex then
you said positional are just 1 inch left and 1 inch right ezpz
surely you can prove it, getting all 100% of them

[Aco505]

I don't know if there are any situations where you wanted to use true north but couldn't because of burst, but could you not have just worked around the boss and the mechanics?

Plenty of them. Fitting a non-damaging oGCD during even-minute bursts can be difficult, more so when TN has to be used in a specific GCD. It's not impossible but more often than not something will be moved out of buffs, especially as the fight progresses due to GSK drift. There's also the fact that STD is always a single weave and that Life Surge may be used once or twice depending on timing, although the value of a 5th positional LS is not that important.

The change is mostly QoL for those situations, but a lowered skill ceiling in fights where it wasn't needed. I think it's a band-aid before 7.0, where they'll probably remove some positionals from the job and I wish they didn't but we'll see.

[Taranok]

Yes really? Lets apply your logic...

• Zodiark isn't more interesting then Hydaelyn
• Endsinger neither vs Barbariccia
• Eden Leviathan Savage worse then Titan/Eden's Promise
• P2S water-dog-horse is worse then P3S / P4S both phases
• P7S unironically even more boring then P6S due to optimization strats
• P8S phase2 is less fun then P8S phase1 in every way
• Rathalos EX better then Seiryu EX? really? like really? no really?
• Wanna compare ARR Leviathan EX vs ARR Titan EX

Anyone wanna argue how Bismarck EX was the best Heavensward EX ever in thread cause its Carapace had no positionals? And unless you wanna name Dun Scaith's Deathgaze Hollow, every alliance raid with a boss that has no positionals isn't more interesting to me either.

• Not Hobs and Engels vs TypeS
• Not Puppets Bunker's 1st boss vs Mustadio
• Not False Idol phase1 vs phase2

Trying to be more interesting? is not being more interesting. By your logic, lets not pretend just cause something has NO positionals that it somehow is more interesting either, cause it definitely wasn't for me.

Fun/Difficulty/Interests remains subjective. But Removing Positionals does not magically make Square fullfill an empty promise to replace it with something better in any way either. There's Zero proof... that positionals existing stood in the way of any fight design or mechanic ever being developed, mhm.

• Zodiark and Hydaelyn are both uninteresting fights, but Zodiark was a lot more fun than Hydaelyn.
• Barbariccia is literally: "I hope you hate playing casters!" the fight. Endsinger is playable by multiple playstyles while still being frenetic, and a hell of a lot more fun.
• P2S completely destroyed P3S and P4S across everyone I've talked to on it.
• All of Pandaemonium tier 2 is irredeemably awful. It is the worst tier the devs have released since Gordias. P7S isn't bad because of a lack of positionals, it's bad because that entire tier is bad.
• P8SP1 could be removed from the game and it would actually improve the game. P8SP2 is actually a fun fight.
• Rathalos EX is legitimately a bad fight. No positionals is a redeeming quality. The fight is designed to be a monster hunter fight in FFXIV, it doesn't translate well for a variety of reasons.
• Are we seriously comparing 2 of the best fights the game has made, where the best phase of 1 fight was when it LITERALLY IS A WALL BOSS while the other fight is ENTIRELY A WALL BOSS?

Sure, let's bring up bismarck. It's an adds fight with positionals combined with a target dummy section. It's one of the worst fights ever created. And its gameplay is dominated by positional fights. It's a bad fight because it's a bad fight but, oh, you didn't address my original point, once.

Bosses with positionals are more static than bosses without.

Rathalos? A hell of a lot less static than Seiryu. Engels? Constantly exploding the arena, constantly needing to shift about. What about literally all of Bozja and Eureka?

My entire point is that when you design bosses to need to land positionals, the fight design becomes more static. You can argue all you want splitting hairs on the opinions of which bosses are better. But you know what happened in Titan Extreme? The boss stood slightly north of mid and the players barely wiggled around the boss. We can have discussions about pacing and such but, you know what? Let's use titan savage.

The best phase of E4S/Titan Savage was phase 2/the wall. It's where the majority of interesting mechanics happened where they got creative.

Why not bring up Sephirot EX, where the first half of the fight, with positionals, is a largely static snooze fest, and the wall boss section after adds is a hodgepodge of rather interesting mechanics one after another at a decent pace, where the fight isn't static? It's not like you can just stand in one spot and DPS SephEx.

If anything, all you have done is made my point for me. The least static bosses are the ones without positionals. Hell, your own examples showed this. You know what you do on Mustadio? Wiggle back and forth around the hitbox while the boss sits in middle. Occasionally the boss moves and you just follow it because nothing interesting happens in the fight. What about Cidolfus Orlandeau, a positionless fight? You have to get inside the hitbox, well past melee range, move from platform to platform, take mechanics away from the boss. Cid is a hell of a lot more interesting a fight than the entirety of Abyssos, difficulty be damned.

What about P6S? It's a static fight largely bereft of actually good mechanics compared to P2S.

Hell, all your examples have proven involving Endwalker fights is this: Endwalker has created literally the worst fights this game has seen since Gordias, period. They're all dominated by favorable melee positioning and mechanics, don't challenge melee DPS at all, and the only example of a fight in endwalker you enjoyed are also fights that completely destroyed the meta or caster DPS population. Because when I look at Barbariccia, I just look at the fact that that fight is one of the worst fights the expansion produced.

But I can see how a melee DPS player would like a frenetic fight for melee dps in an expansion built around hand-holding melee DPS players at the expense of literally all other playstyles. I can see why that might be fun for you and why you'd the damage those fights did to everything else.

Even bringing up how P8SP1 is almost singlehandedly responsible for causing Paladin to be reworked would be lost on you, and that alone makes it a garbage fight.

[fulminating]

The thing that singlehandedly destroyed paladin was everyone except pld and blm being put in this stupid buff stacking burst style combat. Letting dots tick while dog 2 occurs would not have made any difference to that. Not to mention the rework was a damage loss overall of ~1.5% or so.

p8sp2 has completely free uptime and basically no mechanics - you have solved puzzle 1 and solved puzzle 2 where you might have to run out of melee range and for what cost?

p2s wasn't terrible, p3s was probably the best fight in the tier if you could get past the orange, p4s had its moments in both phases.

Actually have half a response, I think your taste is just completely alien

[CelestiCer]

The thing that singlehandedly destroyed paladin was everyone except pld and blm being put in this stupid buff stacking burst style combat. Letting dots tick while dog 2 occurs would not have made any difference to that. Not to mention the rework was a damage loss overall of ~1.5% or so.

p8sp2 has completely free uptime and basically no mechanics - you have solved puzzle 1 and solved puzzle 2 where you might have to run out of melee range and for what cost?

p2s wasn't terrible, p3s was probably the best fight in the tier if you could get past the orange, p4s had its moments in both phases.

Actually have half a response, I think your taste is just completely alien

I thought they overbuffed the P8S boss and instead of just nerfing the boss? they attempted to buff Jobs and nerfed the Boss... It's been a while by now. ( slowly but surely reading Taranok's post... )

[AsiTsurugi]

[LIST]
skill issue alert.

I am sure you will be playing melees the second it becomes "more fun" without positionals yes? Given that amazing "skill" you seem to be demonstrating with melees since ShB Post more about "having to use more than 0 brain cells is so hard and toxic and ruins fight designs for you", it's pretty entertaining to read that product of congenital cognitive deficit. Same goes for any other poster in here that seems to imagine that "removing positionals will magically make better fight designs" because apparently raids haven't existed in this game since ARR and postionals were definitely not more punishing to miss despite having good boss designs and fight mechanics compared to the uninspired variants of "in/out, stack/spread" that exists these days, that apparently challenge you all to no end. Oh and the forced 2 minute meta has absolutely nothing to do with boring fights this expansion, it's all just positionals, mmkay?