Please finally fix Tank, DPS and Healer roles SE

[Gemina]

I don't have many issues with the current design of the DPS role. However, I can admit that my time playing DPS is restricted to mainly the melee sub role, of which I play three (SAM, NIN, MNK). I do have some experience playing DNC as well, but my desire to play DNC is purely aesthetic. If I play it well, it's because it is a very straight forward job.

I have not tanked anything really respectable other than Sephirot Unreal. My issues with tanks comes strictly from my experience with having to heal them. My experience here has that well over 50% of the tanks I group with do not use, or do not know how to use their mitigation properly. As such, I do have to heal them to keep them from dying. However, when I get a good tank, they are virtually unkillable so it is basically from one end of an extreme to the other. In the thread I started about suggesting a super TB, or mini enrage, the intention of this thread was to point out the issues with their self-sustain. This came from an EX encounter with Rubicante where neither the boss, or the tank could kill the other, and the group was forced to watch this tank solo the boss for over five minutes until he finally enraged.

I typically don't like talking about healer issues anymore because my views tend to spark a lot of controversy. That in itself is fine, but it becomes a back and forth crapfest with each side trying to shove their views into the other's brain, and not even attempting to hear the other side out, which ends up leading to personal attacks, and other forms of non-civil trading of words. What I will say is that I think some tank and healer issues are related and coincide with each other. While both roles also have their respective issues as a result of the way encounters are designed.

It will be interesting to see what SE does in 7.0, assuming they do anything at all. Even though I defend these guys quite a bit, there are undoubtedly issues across all three roles that are causing grievances among the playerbase. Even I can admit that these need to be addressed if they care about the game and the playerbase.

[Ransu]

Tanks: Too much mitigation and self-healing. Warriors being a prime example of this where even the most casual players can see how OP they are in normal content. We need their mitigation and healing skills to be nerfed so that it doesnt fully take away a healer's job.

Damage mitigation skills are not the problem, its the fact they can heal themselves. I will always hold the opinion that tanks should not have self healing skills, and if they do have any it should be extremely limited and only a single skill, not multiple different skills that apply self healing like WAR has.

[Ath192]

Personally I don't want them touching WHM. I think WHM is fine as is, and I definitely don't want them making it more complicated. I really like how simple WHM is because in normal content I can watch videos when running an expert dungeon for the 500th time, and in harder/new content I can watch the boss and other players more to focus more on learning the mechanics. I would like to have more healing mechanics in harder content though.. More healing, esuna watches, etc. I don't think healers need more complex dps skills, 'cause then why even have the healer class? They'd just be casters then. I'm really happy with how the game is now as a WHM main, but if other healer mains aren't happy then I'd much prefer the fights be made with more healing mechanics rather than the healer skills being made more complex.

How is a game so boring you like to watch other videos while playing it a good thing? That is so backwards. How about we get a game interesting enough we don't have to pull up youtube to entertain ourselves while we are playing it? Screw it, if thats the logic I hope they make WHM and all healers much more complicated so people actually have to pay attention.

This is the type of people that defend this games direction. They're not actually interested in it. It's like some AFK game they just play and don't even know why since they're busy doing other things.

Normal content should be interesting too. Raiding isn't even available until endgame which is like 5% of this game at this point.

[Atelier-Bagur]

How is a game so boring you like to watch other videos while playing it a good thing? That is so backwards. How about we get a game interesting enough we don't have to pull up youtube to entertain ourselves while we are playing it? Screw it, if thats the logic I hope they make WHM and all healers much more complicated so people actually have to pay attention.

This is the type of people that defend this games direction. They're not actually interested in it. It's like some AFK game they just play and don't even know why since they're busy doing other things.

Normal content should be interesting too. Raiding isn't even available until endgame which is like 5% of this game at this point.

And even then theres very little engaging raiding content anyway. Alliance raids have been nerfed hard and the only meaningful challenge are Extremes (somewhat) and Savage. And the current savage and Ultimates have been jeopardized with the poor balancing of roles.

This is why we have "balance" in patches, aka things need to be balanced for every role to do their own part well enough to clear the content. If another role is taking another roles job then that just proves that the design is compromised. Tanks shouldnt need to be self-sustaining gods, healers shouldnt need to focus on dps (in my personal opinion anyway). Why give healers so many options for their class when its not optimized for their consistent use? Why give tanks so much options to keep themselves alive when we have a class that supposed to do that for them?

Other MMOs have their balancing issues but I have never heard the problem of one role making the other one useless.

[Hyperia]

I don’t mind more complicated BUT it has to be more interesting on the healing side and NOT a complicated DPS rotation.

Yes yes… I know that the Healer job developer is actually the Magic DPS dev… maybe they should do something radical and hire a healer specific developer.

I would love to see healers get more buffing abilities rather than more DPS. Let the DPS do their thing and let the healers keep them alive and help them do more DPS.

[Boblawblah]

With how many people get stressed about the idea of healing as it is, I just can't see how making healers more complicated, at least in normal content, is a good idea. Yes, there will be a group of healers that really like it, but i'm willing to bet there will be a larger group that will not want healers to be harder to play. Despite what people may say, any change to how something players, even if it's not technically 'harder' will be perceived as such by someone having to adjust how they play.

As for Tank and DPS, well, you might as well make a 'make FFXVII' thread for all the good it'll do. They're not going to make sweeping changes to the entire trinity.

[Atelier-Bagur]

With how many people get stressed about the idea of healing as it is, I just can't see how making healers more complicated, at least in normal content, is a good idea. Yes, there will be a group of healers that really like it, but i'm willing to bet there will be a larger group that will not want healers to be harder to play. Despite what people may say, any change to how something players, even if it's not technically 'harder' will be perceived as such by someone having to adjust how they play.

As for Tank and DPS, well, you might as well make a 'make FFXVII' thread for all the good it'll do. They're not going to make sweeping changes to the entire trinity.

It doesnt have to be complicated though. We can keep the healing kits as they are. Just nerf tank mitigation to make healers have something more substantial to do than just spamming one button. We have so much healing abilities yet theres not as used in all forms of content

[RyuDragnier]

It doesnt have to be complicated though. We can keep the healing kits as they are. Just nerf tank mitigation to make healers have something more substantial to do than just spamming one button. We have so much healing abilities yet theres not as used in all forms of content

I'll say. I actively forget Seraph exists on SCH because I never really need to use her. I'm rarely pushed to where I feel like I need her in dungeons, because in the amount of time it takes for her to come down and shield people, I could have just set down Sacred Soil, and used a Recitation+Indom.

[Gemina]

With how many people get stressed about the idea of healing as it is, I just can't see how making healers more complicated, at least in normal content, is a good idea. Yes, there will be a group of healers that really like it, but i'm willing to bet there will be a larger group that will not want healers to be harder to play. Despite what people may say, any change to how something players, even if it's not technically 'harder' will be perceived as such by someone having to adjust how they play.

I don't think it is an issue of making them more complicated, and more about increasing the threat level in normal duties that can be intimidating for casual healers. If for example a lot of tank mitigation and self heals are taken away that responsibility is removed from the tank, and passed onto the healer. The way I see things though is that responsibility should be as close to equal as possible for all the roles in a party. The way things are now, healers have the least amount of responsibility in normal level duties. If you take away a tank's ability to sustain themselves, or a good portion of it anyway, this will even things out a lot more. This is how I feel it should be. Tanks already have a large amount of responsibility within duties, it is absolutely ridiculous that they are also capable of healing themselves and party members to boot.

[R041]

Dumb Memes aside....

Memes are all we have left. You all said it yourself - Giving suggestions here is basically just us talking into the void.

It's just funny to see people crack because of this specifically. As if this just happened overnight, when we know what's been happening since Stormblood.