TOP cleared with no healers

[SieyaM]

A lot of the time people want to suggest that outgoing damage just needs to be increased, but I have a feeling if that were done then we would end up with a flood of complaints about how healing has turned into a GCD heal spam instead of a DPS spam. Healers have a great deal of healing tools and nothing else really, and I feel like they could take out some of those tools and replace them with some kind of support abilities instead, something to do instead of DPS spam while also making sure their healing options are a tight and connected kit instead of the plethora of fire and forget abilities they have now.

[Knot_D]

The real Healers are the Tanks we met along the way?

That kinda suggests the problems are Tanks having too much healing...

Except GNB and DRK but also I don't think so, because what? There's one time where if your healer died and you don't have SMN or RDM, it's a guarantee wipe, but WAR can carry entire party with their Nascent and Shake it Off and I'm glad for it

[GaiusDrakon]

But it does. Either you're not paying attention enough to notice it or you're willingly ignore it. This sort of thing happens at all levels of the end game.

There's the video I linked above. That was from an old thread here, it was a pug, the healers died early and an entirely bang average group continued on to kill a current and relevant Extreme with no issues.

How many times have you seen the healer die in a dungeon like Dead Ends and again, the tank just carries the rest of the fight, maybe even solos it. I can probably dig up logs if you really must.

This is a problem at all levels of play in the end game and IMHO as someone who literally still has 'pocket healbot' as their lodestone bio, it's just depressing at this stage.

In Everquest, if I was alive, you were alive too. I was known as a powerhouse of healing and survivability and unless it was a death touch, you weren't dieing before me. I felt mighty, I felt impactful.

In WoW PvP, if I was alive, you were alive too. I was known as a powerhouse of healing and survivability and in open world and BGs, if I was covering you, you weren't dieing before me. I felt mighty, I felt impactful.

In FFXIV, I'm topping you up between raidwides and doing ~half your damage. That's about the extent of my responsibilities as a healer now. There's only so much I can save you from and that rapidly dwindles to little to nothing once you hit Savage. Dropping huge HPS bombs is neither productive, nor even remotely optimal and for the bulk of the time. I feel like a DPS but instead of engaging gameplay mechanics, I get a cooldown spreadsheet with my co-healer.

You don't see the genius of Yoshi P here mate:

1. Make healers boring
2. Healers quit
3. Groups can't find healers
4. New healers are generally bad players because dumbed down jobs attract... lol
5. People heal much worse than before
6. But wait! New healers suck so much so let's give tanks a ton of healing
7. Problem solved

It's so perfect.

[ForteNightshade]

1) No, because it's used to draw conclusions about Healer Jobs IN ALL CONTENT, as well AS ALL CONTENT.

2) No, you're trying to negate arguments without actually making counter arguments.

3) You failed to actually offer a rebuttal. All it proved is she has a say. You can't just ignore or write off the opinions of anyone who disagrees with you while talking about issues that matter to them.

4) It literally is an exception to the rule. A person doesn't have to have a physics degree to say "rain is falling right now" when it's raining. And you saying "Pah! You don't have a degree in physics or meteorology! You aren't in a position to tell me whether or not it's raining!"

4b) Ex5 has been cleared with 1 Healer + 7 DPS. Is that proof Tanks aren't needed in the game or that there's a serious problem with content not needing Tanks?

5) If the clear is used to talk about the rest of the game, everyone gets a say. Moreover, the flaws are in the content design, TANK design and DPS design.

1) Despite the fact none of the changes will matter outside of high end content because they're never going to be necessary. Any changes made to healer design will only ever have an impact on higher level difficulties for the same reason balance changes are only made with Savage and Ultimate in mind.

2) The counter argument is their lack of experience in the subject they're discussing. Which is further emphasised by the claim "this is an exception" when we have ample evidence it isn't. They're arguing the lack of healing isn't an issue in content they don't do.

3) I'm not writing off her opinion because she disagrees with me and that's abundantly clear in my response. Gemina brought up her lack of experience being a criticism she's received and I pointed out it's entirely valid when she's dismissing criticism herself in content she doesn't do.

I'd touch on the others but WaxSw more or less covered my response. I'll bring up for 4b though because even taken at face value, it still speaks to the lackluster healer design and healing requirements. If a fight doesn't need tanks, then it certainly doesn't need healers because there's clearly not enough damage to threaten anyone. So... this isn't really the rebuttal you're trying to make it. Nevertheless, that isn't the case and Rubicante is an actual exception. We weren't doing zero tank runs of Zodiark or Hydaelyn on release. Nobody is solo tanking Ultimate or Savage. Only one role is routinely replaced whenever possible.

That isn't to say tank sustain and self healing hasn't gotten out of hand but like Wax's said, it's a lol moment that you blame literally everything but the healer role for a lack the of healing requirements. Nerfing or outright removing all tank sustain wouldn't suddenly make healer gameplay better. Bloodwhetting isn't what makes it so I can spam Glare 150+ in P5S.

[Troxbark]

Yeah OK EW baby the issues began long before tank buffs

Is Gaius Drakon your main? This is a topic for real players, stick to your erping and sit this one out champ.

You can log into your main account tho, you'll still be wrong but you'll look less like a clown anyway.

[GaiusDrakon]

Is Gaius Drakon your main? This is a topic for real players, stick to your erping and sit this one out champ.

You can log into your main account tho, you'll still be wrong but you'll look less like a clown anyway.

4chan WoWfugee thinks he's a ff14 player and knows its history and proceeds to white knight it at every opportunity

name a more common caricature

[Troxbark]

4chan WoWfugee thinks he's a ff14 player and knows its history and proceeds to white knight it at every opportunity

name a more common caricature

tldr stay mad and cry some more, lol

[GaiusDrakon]

tldr stay mad and cry some more, lol

lmao you know it's true: ur a EW baby WHM one-trick who can't clear the tier until buffs

[Yuella]

Incoming damage needs to be randomized and not happen at specific times that can be memorized. Healers need to be kept on their toes throughout the fight, knowing that throwing out DPS can wipe the party due to sudden random damage.

[Troxbark]

lmao you know it's true: ur a EW baby WHM one-trick who can't clear the tier until buffs

Yeah sure champ, stay mad. LOL