Why is the Healer Subforum so Toxic?

[ForsakenRoe]

You're twisting my words , to be more clear:
i simply wanted to remind people that opinions on forums
don't reflect the whole player base.

Yeh, so SE should do proper surveys and opinion collection so we can have both a more accurate and transparent system of what guides their design philosophy. For example, the classic Kaiten. Who asked for it's removal, rather than something like Shoha 2, or merging Ogi with Ikishoten? If they wanted to remove Kaiten because it makes it harder to balance because of damage swings, then A: maybe they should stop making the 2min window be so focused on that it causes that much damage swing (the damage swing was not a massive issue like this in Stormblood for example), and B: maybe they should have considered reworking it to have a different effect (for example, guaranteeing the next weaponskill will crit) instead of just outright removing it and lowering the skill ceiling of the job

[fulminating]

You're twisting my words , to be more clear:
i simply wanted to remind people that opinions on forums
don't reflect the whole player base.

Surely from the general sentiments and consistent themes to the feedback you can draw broad conclusions? I don't see much point in a forum if you can't.

(That's you as in one, but no native english speaker bar the king says one these days)

[GrimGale]

snipity

Oh I like you.

[BRVV]

Read in an article that the 6.4 job balance changes will yet again be influenced by japanese feedback. Instead of someone from SE learning english they expect the entire non-japanese speaking playerbase to learn japanese...

[Tigore]

For what it's worth, I think you made a great WHM idea, ForsakenRoe's. For my case, I was genuinely asking what others would like since I have more of an altoholic mind from Warcraft using what the group needs. Waxsw or so had an interesting take for Sage mainly by adding in a button that triggers a 2 - 3 hit combo. The cooldown button works like Eukrasia so it just adds one keybind to the UI. This could mean using it for a choice of single target and AoE potentially as well. I might as well re-link your thread, Roe, so others can see your ideas and decide for themselves how much they like it. The WHM idea is on post #6, everyone.

I do think Square would be wise to take surveys from us too. If they would like us to compile our ideas for survey choices, that would be great.

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post6077090

[ForsakenRoe]

Read in an article that the 6.4 job balance changes will yet again be influenced by japanese feedback. Instead of someone from SE learning english they expect the entire non-japanese speaking playerbase to learn japanese...

If I could be given the guarantee that 'if you, Samantha, learn Japanese and use it to communicate on the JP forums, it will definitely have an effect on the design decisions being made' then I probably would. The problem is, even if I did learn, and did post, I'm just one idiot and I dunno how much the JP side of things hates the way healers are atm. I've heard they were less... forthright in their opinions of SB WHM, for example. My style of writing and speaking is also very heavy with cynicism and sarcasm (being British it's kind of baked into us from birth), and I don't think that translates to other languages so well

For what it's worth, I think you made a great WHM idea, ForsakenRoe's. For my case, I was genuinely asking what others would like since I have more of an altoholic mind from Warcraft using what the group needs. Waxsw or so had an interesting take for Sage mainly by adding in a button that triggers a 2 - 3 hit combo. The cooldown button works like Eukrasia so it just adds one keybind to the UI. This could mean using it for a choice of single target and AoE potentially as well. I might as well re-link your thread, Roe, so others can see your ideas and decide for themselves how much they like it. The WHM idea is on post #6, everyone.

I do think Square would be wise to take surveys from us too. If they would like us to compile our ideas for survey choices, that would be great.

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post6077090

Feedback (including constructive criticism, not 'this suck and you should feel bad for writing it') is what makes it worth the time to make. Though I will take the opportunity to link this in particular from the post, a video demonstration of me performing the rotation from the pitch. Not very well, admittedly, as I had to manually time the Dia refreshes (it's currently 30s, but my idea would change it to 12s), and clicking (yes clicking) Banish every 15s (to mimic it's intended CD), which I timed by lining it up with the instance timer on the right. Reason I want to emphasize this video is, when you read something like what I'm asking, it doesn't sound like it'll change anything really. Dia's 12 seconds instead of 30? One new skill and it has a 15s CD? But when you see it in action, or heaven forbid you go into Bozja and try it yourself, it becomes a lot more apparent (I hope) that even small changes like these can add up to feel like much bigger total feel-changes for the rotation.

And of course, this doesn't include the fact you'd be able to use all the other cool additions like the Quake/Tornado/Flood skills. I can't 'demonstrate' that without using some verboten tools, or maybe learning how to do video editing things with AfterEffects or something and I'm too lazy to bother with that

edit: As a further illustration of the point that 'adding just one button for damage does not sound like much', this is what our 'GCDs used per minute' rotation looks like now:



And this is what would happen if I had the power to 'ruin the game':



Only 7 Glares a minute! 8, if you want to count Quake and Glare as the same thing (they would share a button ala Inner Chaos on WAR), compared to the 18 we have now per minute

[ty_taurus]

For what it's worth, I think you made a great WHM idea, ForsakenRoe's. For my case, I was genuinely asking what others would like since I have more of an altoholic mind from Warcraft using what the group needs. Waxsw or so had an interesting take for Sage mainly by adding in a button that triggers a 2 - 3 hit combo. The cooldown button works like Eukrasia so it just adds one keybind to the UI. This could mean using it for a choice of single target and AoE potentially as well. I might as well re-link your thread, Roe, so others can see your ideas and decide for themselves how much they like it. The WHM idea is on post #6, everyone.

I do think Square would be wise to take surveys from us too. If they would like us to compile our ideas for survey choices, that would be great.

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post6077090

I've shared several different takes on each of the healers in the past, sometimes full kit theorycrafts, and other times just key points to communicate an idea. It's been a hot minute, so there are probably things that I might adjust if I took another swing at these ideas now. Without having access to a prototyping build, it's really tough to gauge how certain things will feel in practice, but I'll share some of where' they've been posted if you want to take a look:

- Scholar as a Poison Healer
- Astrologian as a buff-focused healer

This one below is a google doc that I don't know if I ever shared. I mentioned parts of this theorycraft before, but I think I just brought it up once in another thread somewhere.
- Sage as an attack healer

This one is a much older White Mage theorycraft based on Aerith. I strongly would like to see White Mage reworked into something inspired by her like how Gunbreaker is inspired by Squall, but this is a pretty old take on the job that I'd want to change a few things about. It's also a google doc cause it's been like half a year at least since I shared it. It's also not as polished as the Sage one format wise, so forgive me while I cringe.
- Aerith-inspired White Mage

Like I said, there's things I'd still change with these at this point, as without having a way to test them, it's hard to really lock down ideas that feel 'right.' But these are still the general directions I would like to see each healer move in. Note I also keep pushing my take on a rework to how MP is used to be more about spending it in bursts for specific tools rather than having tiny MP taxes on everything that automatically resolve themselves every 60 seconds.

[Tigore]

Sorry about the slow response. A few things happening in the background for me. I am reading through Ty's suggestions to see how it all links together.

So far the SGE one looks pretty good with the class doing a lot more different DPS spells. Some of the healing cooldowns like Zoe got morphed into a DPS ability (Bia) that costs 1200 mana. So we can have that "Recitation-like" barrier if we wanted to more often, but it will cost 2400 mana to do that. Rhizomata got changed to E - Bia too. I see some pseudo combos too with some Eukrasia DPS spells unlocking another oGCD DPS spell that also has a support effect or more damage. The odd part is Addersgall being changed to be converted to Addersting with E - Diagnosis or Prognosis with Anamnesis also doing something similar with self MP regen. Reasons seems to be about giving us a reason to use these healing spells to trigger Toxikon without the barrier breaking cheese we have now. E - Anamnesis seems to be a competing spell against Toxicon to either trigger reduced damage taken with Anathema (Toxicon) or put the enemies into a deep sleep with Somnia (E - Anamnesis) for a Holy-ish effect. Toxicon will probably win out more since it does more damage, but MP regen is needed sometimes too.

[Aravell]

If I could be given the guarantee that 'if you, Samantha, learn Japanese and use it to communicate on the JP forums, it will definitely have an effect on the design decisions being made' then I probably would. The problem is, even if I did learn, and did post, I'm just one idiot and I dunno how much the JP side of things hates the way healers are atm. I've heard they were less... forthright in their opinions of SB WHM, for example. My style of writing and speaking is also very heavy with cynicism and sarcasm (being British it's kind of baked into us from birth), and I don't think that translates to other languages so well

Back during ShB, the JP side was also greatly unsatisfied with healers in general, though they leaned towards wanting more to heal rather than wanting more engaging downtime activities. I'm not sure what the majority stance is there right now, but if it's still the same, that proves that SE doesn't listen to either of us. EN wants more engaging downtime, JP wants more healing to do, SE gave us mitigation checks, go figure.

[Osmond]

Well, if pleasing one is pissing ppl off and vice versa in the other. The least crappy answer is to please neither.