Why is the Healer Subforum so Toxic?

[Tigore]

For what it's worth, I think you made a great WHM idea, ForsakenRoe's. For my case, I was genuinely asking what others would like since I have more of an altoholic mind from Warcraft using what the group needs. Waxsw or so had an interesting take for Sage mainly by adding in a button that triggers a 2 - 3 hit combo. The cooldown button works like Eukrasia so it just adds one keybind to the UI. This could mean using it for a choice of single target and AoE potentially as well. I might as well re-link your thread, Roe, so others can see your ideas and decide for themselves how much they like it. The WHM idea is on post #6, everyone.

I do think Square would be wise to take surveys from us too. If they would like us to compile our ideas for survey choices, that would be great.

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post6077090

[fulminating]

You're twisting my words , to be more clear:
i simply wanted to remind people that opinions on forums
don't reflect the whole player base.

Surely from the general sentiments and consistent themes to the feedback you can draw broad conclusions? I don't see much point in a forum if you can't.

(That's you as in one, but no native english speaker bar the king says one these days)

[ty_taurus]

Its a never ending story. When they are out of arguments to argue against the complaints players are having, they'll just resort to the "majority", as if they knew exactly what the majority thinks, and as if that somehow invalidated numerical data. All that while painting the forums as haters or toxic just because they're reading what they don't want to read.

No one’s even claiming that we or they “know what the majority wants” so I have no idea what he’s saying. It’s the equivalent of walking into a political discussion, yelling a bunch of buzzwords that aren’t even relevant to the conversation, and then walking away.

[Iedarus]

"But healers will struggle in Extreme/Savage if they have to dps with more buttons!"

Tanks can juggle dpsing while weaving in mitigations. It is not that hard...

If you are a casual player you don't even have to press those buttons. Dungeon and normal raid bosses don't have enrage. If you are thinking about doing hardcore content, all that can be said is to "git gud." If hardcore content is made easy then it's not hardcore content.

[Teno]

The healer forum is toxic ? I don't think so. At worst a healer (usually new) is adamant that they should cast Cure 1, and is then met with harsh reception, but other than that...

Now... disgruntled, bitter, mad at what the role has become, willingly ignored and reduced to a 1 button gameplay with bloat fiesta ? Yes definitely.

[Tigore]

Funny thing for me is that I was actually scolded by a WoW DPS for using my free Shaman healing time for damage 2 expansions ago during Legion in that game. I was "caught owning" the enemies with Lava Bursts and Flame Shock DoTs everywhere and he neglected to mention my Healing Stream / Tide Totems, Healing Rains and Riptide HoTs ... As well as the tank also using their rage more on Revenge DPS rather than Ignore Pain shields. Nobody died either... The damage meter add-ons there almost never fully get used to see this stuff by most players...

Anyways, I do not mind to get a damage rework for the healer classes. I was even around for Cleric Stance and used it to throw out powered up double DoTs. As I said in another thread, we may need to survey what healing styles we want for each class that has been suggested on the forums. So far, I have only noticed surveys just asking if more healing or damage buttons are desired with damage being a higher pick.

We should also check with Ultimate raiders which healing buttons were least useful or never used for them. I usually never use Cure 3 with Medica being better for PuGs, but Savage may sometimes coordinate players together to make Cure 3 better.

[ForsakenRoe]

Well, we can start by merging lower level garbo skills with the higher level 'clearly a replacement' variants. Cure1 and Cure2, Benefic and Benefic2, Medica and Medica2, Helios and Asp.Helios, Physick and Adlo. WHM's already way lower on button count than other healers as it is so we already have room to add to it, even without merging stuff

[Deceptus]

It's get really damn old when you're trying to point out obvious flaws, trimmed down systems and boring gameplay only to be met with:

"WHAt wOuLd YoU dO TO FIX iT"

I don't have to come up with solutions. My part is to identify what I consider negative aspects of the game and voice my opinion on the forum CBU3 tells us to voice our opinions on.

I don't have to fix it because I don't get paid to fix it.

The line crossed that adds toxic to the casual label is the one beyond those positions. It's not that everyone approaches the game at their own pace, it's that anyone doing it faster than me is an elitist, a tryhard, a sweaty metaslave dirty raider ruining the game by...being over there, MENACINGLY threatening us all by dint of being more skilled than me

Over the years I've become more casual. EX content is about the max I'm going to do because I play the game to chill and not have a second job.

But if my casual @$$ can see these flaws it's tough to believe others can't unless they're oblivious, lying to themselves, or just white knighting a multimillion dollar company that doesn't need the plebs to defend them.

[ForsakenRoe]

'Go play ultimate' is really gonna become the 'don't you guys have phones' of this game, they shouldn't have been able to get past phase 2 without a healer if the game was designed well, the fact they got to the LAST PHASE of the hardest content in the game shows what a joke the healer role has become. Yoshi better count his lucky stars I don't got a fanfest ticket because if I got a Q+A spot to ask about some pointless crap like 'What color is Graha's underwear' or some such softball question, you bet your bottom dollar I'd changeup and unleash bankai about the state of healers. Look how much evidence we have now, all the complaint threads, influencers mentioning the state of the role, the survey, now THIS.

If nothing else, I'd pressure SE with a question like 'player did a survey of the forums and found that roughly 80-85% of respondents for the healers want more damage actions as their top priority. Of course, this could be argued to be 'not representative of the playerbase', so can you commit to running an official survey on the Lodestone, to get an accurate sampling of what changes players want for the jobs going forward? Given the previous two AST designs (5.0, 6.0) have been received poorly enough to warrant a third rework in 7.0, DRK and MCH took several years to get the sensible change of Hypercharge being stack based, DRK's Living Dead took since HW to get changed to something that doesn't overly burden the healer compared to the other tanks, not to mention the massive outcry and pushback from every region, even JP, against the removal of Kaiten and the subsequent silence on the matter despite you asking for our feedback, I and many other players were wondering: Where exactly do you get your feedback to guide your job changes from? Because it doesn't feel like posting on the forums with ideas, suggestions, feedback etc amounts to anything more than shouting into the void'

But yeh, no ticket, so Yoshi and his 'perfectly designed healer role' get to continue on oblivious to the problems. Instead I can't wait to hear about whether Hythlodaeus and Hades are canonically in a gay relationship or whatever

It's get really damn old when you're trying to point out obvious flaws, trimmed down systems and boring gameplay only to be met with:

"WHAt wOuLd YoU dO TO FIX iT"

I don't have to come up with solutions. My part is to identify what I consider negative aspects of the game and voice my opinion on the forum CBU3 tells us to voice our opinions on.

I don't have to fix it because I don't get paid to fix it.

Even better is this one:

'healer kinda not good, for these reasons'
"WHAt wOuLd YoU dO TO FIX iT"
'>posts an entire theorycraft of what to do to fix it, including potencies, cooldowns, gauge costs, etc'
"NO YOU CANT DO THOSE CHANGES THAT WOULDNT WORK"

Like, we've tried man, some of us literally have done SE's job with coming up with the ideas on what to do to bring some spice back to the role, and it still gets naysayed by 'certain elements' for whatever reason. In my case, because I had the audacity to tie a healing skill to a gauge that built by doing damage. A healing skill that was weaker than Cure3, PI Rapture, or Solace, yet I was told 'what if the tank needs to be healed and the player doesn't have the gauge because they don't want to focus so much on damage'. I fine tuned potencies so fervently I got the output of 'refresh DOT when it expires, spam Glare', the gameplay we have now, to be 98% of the effective potency of our current output. Despite this (and showing the maths in the post to prove it), I constantly ran into 'the casual players might not be able to do as much damage if it's more complex, and then they'll be gatekept out of content they could do before', like the 2% is going to make or break a Savage run instead of the crit variance.

The people who say "WHAt wOuLd YoU dO TO FIX iT" don't want to know what we'd do to fix it. Whatever we do suggest is to be derided as a terrible idea, because SE can do no wrong and their healer design is perfect. It's the encounter design that is apparently the problem. Except whenever I say 'yeh fair, lets make Savage hit more like Barb EX, actually let's make everything hit with a cadence like Barb EX (I just mean the speed, not the damage, stuff in EX roulette would hit really low and non-threatening, but faster)', I get 'no Barb EX is like a Savage fight and people struggled with it on release', cool? That's the point surely, that it's a struggle to clear until you practice it a bit? Wouldn't be very interesting content if you just roflstomped it on the first try

[OdinelStarrei]

https://twitter.com/mitsurugi137/sta...4660636639232?

Semirhage, and other friends in suffering, I return for this. I have questions.

What is going on here? Why are there no healers in the final phase of TOP? Would Magic Number LB3 be the only thing preventing a no-healer kill?

How did they even make it this far?

How and why is this even possible on-patch? Solo Healer TEA and TankCOB post-GNB was one thing, but this is a bit much, no?