Counterpoint to all the Debbie Downers lately...

[R041]

The point of blocking them is so I don't have to read their responses. I mention it to be polite

[TowaIsBestGirl]

If you really think a positive thread would not be descended upon by the people unhappy with the state of the game to let everyone know they actually aren't happy with the game, you haven't been paying attention. Another poster posted only her positive thoughts a couple days ago and was immediately criticized for posting by several people - some of the attacks even on her character and motives for posting.

You haven't been here long, but you seem to focus mostly on the positive crowd in your attacks and skim by far worse offenses. It's a trend I already noticed with your posts.

You mind pointing out which thread in particular you're speaking of? Because I can think of two off the top of my head, and one was reactionary in nature designed for the explicit purpose of being contrary and the other's second half made denigrative sweeping generalizations about large swathes of posters. So I'm not particularly inclined to show clemency towards those not acting in good faith. I know for a fact that I've addressed the more obvious trolls directly, when they're being unnecessarily antagonistic.

As for my "attacks" (for the record, calling them such already harms your credibility from the onset) if pointing out people being overly hostile and advising more courteous conduct is attacking someone then I can't really come to an agreement with you. Additionally, I can only call out what I personally see when I'm actually present on the forums and I'm certainly not going to go trawling through past threads. If this amounts to taking sides to you, then we may as well end our relations here since we probably will not get along very well you and I.

Quite frankly, I'm sorry but nowhere is it a viable policy that positivity ought to be an unassailable bastion that none may dare tarnish. At the end, the purpose or motive of any given thread is less relevant than most would think. So long as it isn't outright discourteous, it should be deemed acceptable and so too are any posts that follow it so long as they follow a baseline of conduct. There simply is no moral position that is superior enough to shield one from the proffering of opposing viewpoints. If you really think I've not been paying my dues equally than I can only vow to be better, though from the way you conduct yourself I have a sneaking suspicion little I could do would you find satisfactory.

[AwesomeJr44]

Did you know that I blocked them all? I can't see what they say unless someone quotes them. I totally don't think about them anymore because I blocked them all! By the way, this page is FULL of blocked users. I just want you to know that I can't see them!

It does seem like certain people are mentioning it a few more times than you'd think someone naturally would.

Not to get too conspiratorial but I almost wonder if it's supposed to be some kind of coordinated tactic to get everyone else to block the 'undesirables'. I'd like to imagine that it isn't, but it came out of nowhere all at once, and considering Renalt is one of the people doing it, I wouldn't be surprised if it was. It all started right after Renalt got exposed for doing this kind of stuff, which makes it even more suspicious...

I get what you're saying, I do but... I don't know, that feels like giving up. I hate throwing up the white flag. Yeah, yeah I'm stubborn you can laugh now. ( ⚆ _ ⚆ )

Don't mistake me, though if someone gets particularly nasty and it feels as though I cannot tolerate them anymore I'll do what I have to.

I'm almost in the same boat here, although my reasoning is less about being stubborn and more about finding humor in the wild flailing of madmen. You need to be a particularly... unique... specimen to earn a spot on my block list.

Blocking is for cowards.

In most cases yes.

The point of blocking them is so I don't have to read their responses.

If it's just about not reading other peoples' responses, why do we have to hear about how certain people got blocked by other certain people in every single thread? If it's just that simple, why are people bringing it up so much?

You haven't been here long, but you seem to focus mostly on the positive crowd in your attacks and skim by far worse offenses. It's a trend I already noticed with your posts.

That's because the worst people on the positive side of the argument are people like VelKallor who gives everyone angry rants, and Striker44 who goes on and on about some invisible majority. Then on the other side, the worst of the negative people is supposedly Aveyond who is just a little forceful with his opinions. To a normal person coming into the forums, the positive side of the argument looks insane and overbearing while the negative side at worst looks jaded and cynical. Towa is literally in the position I was in just a little under a year ago when I started posting more often than the occasional question. I came to the same conclusions after seeing how rabid certain people can be. Are you surprised that someone new would come to these conclusions?

You really have some nerve calling someone who wants to post their enjoyment having some contrarian purpose.

Counterpoint to all the Debbie Downers lately... doesn't read like a thread meant to show someone's enjoyment about the game. If it was, why does the very title mention "Debbie Downers"? I think we all know exactly why it was made, so stop pretending.

In the spirit of fairness, I feel inclined to state that while I concur with you on the perceptions of those first two I don't know for an absolute certainty if I'd have liked to been around for past posts made by the third poster in question. I imply nothing untowards, of course but assuming there is any accuracy in certain tales I've heard I think maybe I can deem myself fortunate to be a late arrival here.

Fair enough.

Obviously this is just another person telling you about events you haven't witnessed, but from my memory, the worst things I've personally ever seen Aveyond do are these:
1) He had opinions about what kind of female characters he wanted to see which were debatably (<- and this is a key word as I would argue they weren't) slightly misogynistic. This wasn't anything NSFW either.
2) He was being emotionally manipulated and he called the people doing it out in a very... forceful manner. Could he have been nicer? Sure, but I'm not going to say they didn't deserve it.

I'm not going to claim that he's perfect or that he's the nicest person here, but at least since I started posting more often here last summer (I can't speak for anything that happened before then), he's always had a worse reputation than he deserves. If acknowledging that fact makes me a simp like his haters have suggested, then I guess I'll just have to wear that title.

[TowaIsBestGirl]

I feel like some forget that the nature of a forum implies the inevitability of dissent, and posters who will have a guaranteed opposing viewpoint to yours. There is no true, surefire way to avoid this and we shouldn't want such anyway. What we ought to aspire towards is courteous conduct, rather than pure assent. It sometimes feels as though some would rather dissent not exist at all, rather than taking offense with precisely what people say and how they say it.

I mean this very thread is titled speaking of all critiques as "Debby Downers". That isn't the way to do it, and it certainly isn't going to make people actually desire to treat you better. You must proffer something of your own, if you wish to receive of the bounty.

[Kazhar]

Wow is this guy still going on about how I shut down OP's opinions?

Please. Like this thread was made in good faith. It's not really hidden either, so any attempt at painting OP as a poor soul who only wished for a drama-free forum experience falls flat.

[TowaIsBestGirl]

I'm almost in the same boat here, although my reasoning is less about being stubborn and more about finding humor in the wild flailing of madmen. You need to be a particularly... unique... specimen to earn a spot on my block list.

While I'd hardly say I have a saint's patience, I prefer to continue dealing with less cooperative posters until I absolutely cannot do so any longer or until such a time as they say something that offends my moral values. So far, no one has managed to accomplish this just yet.

That's because the worst people on the positive side of the argument are people like VelKallor who gives everyone angry rants, and Striker44 who goes on and on about some invisible majority. Then on the other side, the worst of the negative people is supposedly Aveyond who is just a little forceful with his opinions. To a normal person coming into the forums, the positive side of the argument looks insane and overbearing while the negative side at worst looks jaded and cynical. Towa is literally in the position I was in just a little under a year ago when I started posting more often than the occasional question. I came to the same conclusions after seeing how rabid certain people can be. Are you surprised that someone new would come to these conclusions?

In the spirit of fairness, I feel inclined to state that while I concur with you on the perceptions of those first two I don't know for an absolute certainty if I'd have liked to been around for past posts made by the third poster in question. I imply nothing untowards, of course but assuming there is any accuracy in certain tales I've heard I think maybe I can deem myself fortunate to be a late arrival here.

You really have some nerve calling someone who wants to post their enjoyment having some contrarian purpose. You don’t know that person and have been here a month. You in fact were in that thread saying she was wrong about her own opinions. I mean we can get into your own behavior more if you really want, since a good portion of your limited history is calling out others. Given I am out of posts, good evening.

(◔_◔) I really despise petty tribalism. Is me addressing only one "side" the sole umbrage you raise against me? Again, as I was saying earlier I have not found any of the recent threads about positivity and what they enjoy to not have had a hidden angle or second half made for the explicit purpose of putting down those who did not enjoy it as much. Frankly, they did not exactly attempt to conceal what jabs they made neither. Once more, there is no such policy stating that positive posts cannot permit less positive posts. Additionally, I'd very much prefer it if you actually linked to the specific thread in question and since you mentioned it in specificity the post of mine you found disfavourable as well.

I'm perfectly willing to recant and correct myself, but I cannot facilitate that if you keep remaining vague about it. But from what I've observed, too much of what is not actually "calling people out" is such to you so I suspect we shall not arrive at an amenable conclusion together.

Edit: Wait just a moment, were you speaking of this thread:

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...s-pretty-great

And, more importantly, this post of mine:

I'd imagine that one of the most glaring flaws in this approach is that half of OP's post is highly inaccurate and ill-researched. If the points being made cannot stay true to the information at hand to players then a suspicion of laziness, reactionism and contrivance is inevitable. The timing could be better too, but that's too possibly coincidental for me to legitimately criticize I feel.

I contest the insinuation that statement I made there was in any way discourteous, I was referring to how the OP did not properly research a few of the points she made in her post not saying she wasn't allowed to be positive. A few points, like the longevity of certain content and the non-stable implementation of the portrait system did not match what a good number of players were professing to experience. If I need to cut back on some of the more scathing remarks I will, but so far I've not observed myself to be nearly as worthy of condemnation as you aspire to throw me to.

Not to mention, a good chunk of your posts in that thread were needlessly antagonistic as well.

Like take these for example:

Completely agree, and love to see a positive thread in the sea of negativity!

I was very much invested in Endwalker's story, and I was captivated until the end. I'm still enjoying the updates now but enjoying the feeling of relative "downtime" for my WOL, which is coinciding with him enjoying other interests (taking up a craft, other classes, housing, Island) that all fits me well now that the world is saved. Excited to see where this goes next.

I'm personally playing more FFXIV than I ever have before, as someone who started in ARR.

Why aren't people allowed to discuss enjoying the game? Contrary to popular beleif (here at least), forums aren't only for endless complaining and bait threads. There is one of these for every 40 complaint threads, but all I see are people looking to turn this thread into something negative too when you literally have nearly every other topic for this.

Oh, they don't want happy players here at all.

This is not the conduct you claim to desire here on this forum, and some of it is predicated upon false pretenses and rather glaring misunderstandings of people's actual positions. In the future, please cut down on the outrage if you do not intend to remain true to your own professed principles.

[Renathras]

For those that lurk on the forums and are seeing all the repeated negative downer posts keep in mind it seems that this has turned into an echo chamber for a few of the bad actors who seem to thrive on stirring up drama and seeing what kind of reaction they can get.

The game in reality vs. the game presented here in the forums are not the same game.

I log in 7 days a week, play with my many friends I've made in the FC and have an absolute blast doing so. In my roughly two years here I've never heard ONE person moaning about what you see here on the forums. We have a great time and will continue to do so.

See you in Eorzia!

Hear hear.

You complain about echo chambers but your post is literally about how everything is fine from your own bubble. Not exactly a convincing argument.

Except reading the replies, OP is right.

Nobody asked, nobody cares.
I don't know what get into the mind of people when they feel threatened by other people's opinions. People disliking the game doesn't invalidate your experience. Some people can be fine with the game while others aren't and both can be correct in their opinion you know?

Nobody asked, nobody cares about all the negative threads, either. That doesn't stop a half dozen from being started every single day here, though. Turnabout is fair play. The fact is, there are plenty of people enjoying the game right now.

EDIT:

The real problem is that people that see the currents problems acts as if everything was shit in the game while those who haven't noticed them (it's hard to notice if you're not up to date with the content) act as if there was no problem. Yes, overall the state of the game pretty good, but still EW patch are pretty much disappointing, especially compared to those of ShB. MSQ feels more and more filler, several story line were cut off (even if the content is still technically there), and the lack of a proper long running content during the patch is strongly felt.

This is, I think, closer to the truth.

Not QUITE there, but close: I'm all caught up and still enjoying the game, I've just had to dig deeper than in the past to keep busy and taken a few weeks break since patches are longer now and I don't have a Bozja/Eureka to spend patch downtime/content droughts in. I have found other things to do when playing - my current quest is to complete every sidequest in the game. I have a couple dozen left in EW and I'll be all caught up - but there are other things to do if I really wanted to. Never done an Ultimate, do Savages sparingly, have just completed each Extreme this expansion but didn't farm for the mounts outside of the first two, etc.

Even people up to date with the content can disagree with all the negative posts. It's not I "haven't noticed" issues, it's that many of the "issues" are overblown, and some aren't even issues at all, just preferences of the people that consider them issues (e.g. things that some people dislike other people like; I don't like Island Sanctuary, but that doesn't mean it's an "issue" considering many people do like it and that's a matter of personal preference, not some objective issue with the game itself). The idea that only people who aren't "up to date" can not see the issues is kind of mildly insulting, honestly. Whether intentional on your behalf or not, it does come across like trying to say if people don't see the issues, their position is invalid since they aren't at the point of informed yet where they can understand or know about them. I doubt you intended it that way, though. But I have seen this in other things, like people saying unless you do Ultimates and Savages, you don't get to comment on the game's combat being good/bad, that sort of thing.

In any case, I think the biggest problems are that patches are longer but we don't have anything to really spend the downtime on making progress that's "drop in/drop out" friendly. Bozja/Eureka, love them or hate them, you could pop in solo or with friends, work on, drop out whenever you needed to go eat or go to work/school or whatever. ARR/HW Relic grinds were different, but also things you could work on in bites here and there. And these were all making progress for your character (unless you already had the Savage weapon; even then though, we all know glam is the true endgame). But right now, we don't have that. Tomes are laughably easy to get, especially if you're in a Hunt LS, and Criterion and Deep Dungeon (floors 31+) require premade groups (no DF) and at least a chunk of time commitment, so don't have that "drop in/drop out" that people love. The only thing right now that has that are the DoH/L tool grinds, which are...much more grindy and specifically a Crafter/Gatherer affair that don't appeal to those who aren't into those things - unlike combat weapons, which apply to everyone.

So we're in kind of a weird place of longer patches that also have less to do in general and less to do during the droughts when they're long in the tooth and that also get longer in the tooth now.

...but the idea that anyone who doesn't think the game is in big trouble over that or who doesn't think there are problems is just someone who doesn't know better? That I disagree with. Even given that issue, I'm still finding things to do and still enjoying the game. I do believe the negative naysayers are prone to a lot of hyperbole and misery loving company, even if they have to MAKE said company miserable.

[NekoMataMata]

Bruh...

What if we just acted like normal human beings, and praised things that deserved praised while criticizing things that earned criticism? We don't need to have some weird agenda going on, we don't need sides, we don't need to sit there accusing people of being bad actors or alts.

Is that too much to ask?

[Lunaxia]

Then on the other side, the worst of the negative people is supposedly Aveyond who is just a little forceful with his opinions.

...

Your signature probably sums up my feelings towards this statement better than words could.

To a normal person coming into the forums, the positive side of the argument looks insane and overbearing while the negative side at worst looks jaded and cynical. Towa is literally in the position I was in just a little under a year ago when I started posting more often than the occasional question. I came to the same conclusions after seeing how rabid certain people can be. Are you surprised that someone new would come to these conclusions?

I've spoken at length on my problems with the double standards surrounding the attitude of EW's supporters, but you're being very, very, very gracious to the critical elements here, at best.

In the spirit of fairness, I feel inclined to state that while I concur with you on the perceptions of those first two I don't know for an absolute certainty if I'd have liked to been around for past posts made by the third poster in question. I imply nothing untowards, of course but assuming there is any accuracy in certain tales I've heard I think maybe I can deem myself fortunate to be a late arrival here.

I made a decision a long time ago to maintain distance between myself and certain aspects of this forum, but all I will say is your sense of caution is not unfounded.

[MagusMirel]

For those that lurk on the forums and are seeing all the repeated negative downer posts keep in mind it seems that this has turned into an echo chamber for a few of the bad actors who seem to thrive on stirring up drama and seeing what kind of reaction they can get.

The game in reality vs. the game presented here in the forums are not the same game.

I log in 7 days a week, play with my many friends I've made in the FC and have an absolute blast doing so. In my roughly two years here I've never heard ONE person moaning about what you see here on the forums. We have a great time and will continue to do so.

See you in Eorzia!

Your Forum Account looks fresh. I suppose you started playing with Shadowbringers? So you missed out a lot to understand the Veterans.
My friends and FC, who are all Veteran players since ARR, have stopped playing FFXIV. We got bored of the recycled content the nerfs and of course the lack of quality content.
It's not the the missing longevity alone, but also the poor effort from SE of creating content lately.
There is basically nothing to do for someone who want's to play this game on a daily basis, because you don't have to invest your time in this game anymore.

This play another game menality is not good for an MMORPG, which is supposed to be a bit grindy to keep the playerbase busy until the next patch arrives.
That's how MMORPG's work to stay alive.

But the design decision from SE are safe and boring. They are catering players who don't actually play this game much, instead of catering the core playerbase which supported them from the start and still want's to enjoy this game to the fullest.

In my case, i feel stabbed in the back.