Counterpoint to all the Debbie Downers lately...

[Thenightvortex]

So to your mind, a petulant, egotistical, narcissistic, immature, delusional manchild with a God complex (who actually is often the butt of his people's jokes, if you probe into his backstory) who believes himself entitled to any woman who takes his fancy is not that bad a representation of the average man, and his pathological level of arrogance, veneer of toxic maculinity and that fact he grudgingly allows the women he corners to say no supposedly offsets these flaws?

If that's the case, society's in an even worse state than I thought.

Why are you derailing the topic? We’re talking about Magnai, not this unrelated dude you’re describing.

But on a serious note, yes, arrogance is indeed, a character flaw which is why I’m saying he’s not perfect, although you overplay it with the “god complex” accusations, it’s nowhere near those levels. And no, him searching for him nhama and asking women out in a confident way is not a flaw. He’s a tribal warlord, for God’s sake, and still acting rather gentlemanly for this status. If he truly believed himself entitled and didn’t care for what others think, he wouldn’t have asked those women at all. As for the “toxic masculinity”…I see this term used far too often to denigrate masculinity and masculine men in general, so I usually see it as a compliment when characters get accused of it. I’d take a man like Magnai over the likes of Alphinaud or post-5.3 G’raha any time of the day.

[Carin-Eri]

So be it. I call things as I see them. Whether it's down to our cultural differences or not it was very clear it was an attempt to put down men at the expense of elevating one of the worst female characters in the entire franchise.

"Slay queen!" scenes do not work for me.

I don't know - the way I see it is that it was all about the approach. I mean, Magnai was pretty arrogant in his approach to her and had (at that point at least) done little to nothing to endear himself to either her or anyone else in the party.

Compare her response to Magnai's attempt to court her, which had all the subtlety and tact of train crash, to her response to Runar - whose approach was far more respectful and probably a by-product of the fact that he'd spent enough time around her to have at least some idea of how to act on his implied romantic feelings toward her.

I mean, I don't particularly like the way she humiliated Magnai, and have always felt that the 'Little sun' scene is highly overrated - but again, she barely knew him and his mouth was clearly in 2nd gear whilst his brain was still in neutral!

[Saraide]

I don't know - the way I see it is that it was all about the approach. I mean, Magnai was pretty arrogant in his approach to her and had (at that point at least) done little to nothing to endear himself to either her or anyone else in the party.

Compare her response to Magnai's attempt to court her, which had all the subtlety and tact of train crash, to her response to Runar - whose approach was far more respectful and probably a by-product of the fact that he'd spent enough time around her to have at least some idea of how to act on his implied romantic feelings toward her.

I mean, I don't particularly like the way she humiliated Magnai, and have always felt that the 'Little sun' scene is highly overrated - but again, she barely knew him and his mouth was clearly in 2nd gear whilst his brain was still in neutral!

Aveyond wishes he could be magnai so of course he's gonna be extra upset. You think magnai being so arrogant would be deterrent to him? Guess again.

[StarRosie]

So be it. I call things as I see them. Whether it's down to our cultural differences or not it was very clear it was an attempt to put down men at the expense of elevating one of the worst female characters in the entire franchise.

That's...not the point of that scene at all.

The point is that Y'shtola could clearly see Magnai's rather...childish outlook when it comes to love and shot it down. Which has been a thing in his backstory for a long while now. He has always been written in a way where he is a strong warrior and a good leader. But his whole "Destined soulmate" belief on love has been called out as childish in lore for a while now. All Y'shtola did was basically be INCREDIBLY blunt about it. Which has also been a well established and built thing, that Y'shtola has no tact. She's brutally honest with most people, to a fault. Just look at who her mother figure was and that becomes really obvious.

If anyone tried to """Girlboss""" Magnai, it was Sadu. Who was picking at this deep wound to his pride as a way to goad Magnai into feeding her battle junkie need for more combat. Buuuuut...you can also look at this moment of trying to goad Magnai into a fight as Sadu having a respect for the big guy's combat ability and knowing he'll give her a really good fight. I wish they'd do more with Magnai, such as give us a quest that involves his 5 older sisters in order to give more clear context for WHY he has this outlook on love (Because they are a big part of it.) and even give him a moment to stand up for himself against them. But instead they treat him like the game's Yamcha...which annoys me. For many, many, many reasons.

[Kazhar]

So be it. I call things as I see them. Whether it's down to our cultural differences or not it was very clear it was an attempt to put down men at the expense of elevating one of the worst female characters in the entire franchise.

"Slay queen!" scenes do not work for me.

I don't have much love for the Scions but I'd say this is a huge reach. It's not about putting down men in general, just the classical "character with inflated ego gets humiliated" trope.

But in any case, is this really that important for you?
Your insistence on dying on every possible hill is your own downfall. Instead of choosing your fights, you try to argue all of your issues with the game, even those that are incredibly minor (and frankly impossible to defend like the Magnai thing.) The idea is noble but in reality with that attitude you lose permanently your chance of being heard when that truly matters.

[aveyond-dreams]

But in any case, is this really that important for you?

Given how it's infected quite a lot of the franchises and media and I enjoy, yes. In any case if someone agrees or disagrees with my positions that is no one's business but theirs. People need to learn to write better stories and better characters.

I will continue advocating for stuff along the lines of Estinien/Ysayle or Jill/Clive dynamics while the little sun scene enjoyers are free to do the same. From my perspective its as if Lizzo was asked out by someone at Brad Pitt levels of conventional attractiveness and then she proceeded to pull a yas queen slay moment on him. Miss me with this.

[Aword3213]

Given how it's infected quite a lot of the franchises and media and I enjoy, yes. In any case if someone agrees or disagrees with my positions that is no one's business but theirs. People need to learn to write better stories and better characters.

I will continue advocating for stuff along the lines of Estinien/Ysayle or Jill/Clive dynamics while the little sun scene enjoyers are free to do the same. From my perspective its as if Lizzo was asked out by someone at Brad Pitt levels of conventional attractiveness and then she proceeded to pull a yas queen slay moment on him. Miss me with this.

[Skivvy]

Given how it's infected quite a lot of the franchises and media and I enjoy, yes. In any case if someone agrees or disagrees with my positions that is no one's business but theirs. People need to learn to write better stories and better characters.

[B]I will continue advocating for stuff along the lines of Estinien/Ysayle or Jill/Clive dynamics while the little sun scene enjoyers are free to do the same. From my perspective its as if Lizzo was asked out by someone at Brad Pitt levels of conventional attractiveness and then she proceeded to pull a yas queen slay moment on him. Miss me with this.

So taking this stance with game characters is a tiny red flag, and now you're applying it to real people which is something else.

What's exactly wrong with Lizzo turning down Brad Pitt? She's an incredibly successful woman, she seems to be pretty decent/down to earth, she's well liked and confident, and since it seems to matter to you so much, I personally think she's gorgeous. But even if she wasn't all those things, why would it be an issue if she turned down the advances from someone she didn't like? Should the "ugly" people of the world be thankful they get any attention at all? Do they have to go along with whatever the more attractive person wants simply because they weren't blessed at birth? Or maybe it's just in the manner in which they are allowed to speak to the beautiful ones?

Beauty is subjective, and not finding someone attractive is fine, but several of your comments seem to imply that self-worth should be tied to how attractive you consider them to be. I don't toss around the term lightly, but I truly hope you're trolling at this point. That's a horrible mindset to have, and if it is indeed how you weigh social interactions, I feel for the people in your life.

[Thenightvortex]

I don't have much love for the Scions but I'd say this is a huge reach. It's not about putting down men in general, just the classical "character with inflated ego gets humiliated" trope.

I think Aveyond has a point primarily for the reason of how the reverse situation would be treated. It’s very unlikely that in today’s climate they would allow for a scene where a woman asks a man out and then gets put down by him and this is seen as some cool moment and haha lol her ego got crushed. And even if they did that, which is already extremely unlikely, the community would sure as hell not treat those characters the same way. Just look at all the people who love Sadu and dislike Magnai even though all criticism of one can be applied to another.

[Turnintino]

Well, Alphinaud isn't a man, first of all. I should hope no adult present would choose him.

But anyway, I pick Aymeric. (灬♥ω♥灬) Or maybe Hien...