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  1. #11
    Player
    Sicno's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    654
    Character
    Sandra Dalvia
    World
    Adamantoise
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Adeacia View Post
    Job custom building would be meaningless. People will just figure out the optimal build and everyone will just use that. I'm pretty sure that's literally the reason this kind of thing doesn't exist in the game.
    This would be true if peak performance was mandatory for clearing all content. The vast majority of the content is incredibly lenient and people already play suboptimally most of the time (just take a quick look at any random page in Tales from the Duty Finder), so I don't see the harm in having options for flavor. Even in "hardcore" content you're gonna find a big enough gap in skill between the absolute top players and the people who can barely clear the content. Many times there's even room to carry people, maybe not on day 1 but eventually with good enough gear. If you're struggling sure, you may want to have any advantage at your disposal including the most optimal build available to you, but anyone above that point should have enough room to sacrifice some efficiency if that allows them to engage in a playstyle they'd enjoy more while still getting the job done.
    (9)
    Naoki Yoshida:
    ...Similarly, these older MMOs also had a system where your house would break down if you didn’t log in after a while in order to have you continue your subscription, but this is a thing of the past and we won't have any system like that.
    Source: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/113554 at 1:14:22

  2. #12
    Player
    VelKallor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2021
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    2,590
    Character
    Vel Kallor
    World
    Kujata
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 100
    4. There was some personal debate between me and a dear old friend who loved crafting if Crafting actually devolved after Stormblood (he left FFXIV when Crafting got very nerfed), I want your all opinions on this as I was not around during his ARR-HW era.
    I have spoken to many crafters across three servers, each and everyone I have ever asked HATES HW crafting with a vengeance, so sorry, hell to the NO. GOD NO. ARR crafting at lower levels is a tossup, HW crafting was needlessly complicated, ate mats like there was no tomorrow, again having to level one up to get cross class abilities , whilst it looked good on paper, SUCKED in reality..the specialist jobs?

    Abilities like Whistle Whilst you Work were..clumsy at best, a pain in the michta at worst.

    Whilst I have seen back and forth on crafting then vs now, Im not sure anyone would welcome a return to pre SB crafting systems. Those who want "hard mode" crafting have it with 4 star recipe challenges, along with rare mats to make certain glam gear.

    ( And yes kirimu leather, for example, I am looking at YOU )

    Having levelled crafting pre and post changes, I can comfortably say what we have now is a lot better across the board. With respect, as a master crafter, I would really rather NOT go back to that quagmire.
    (6)
    Last edited by VelKallor; 05-05-2023 at 07:11 PM.

  3. #13
    Player
    Erinellza's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2021
    Posts
    286
    Character
    Erin Ellza
    World
    Sagittarius
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Adeacia View Post
    Job custom building would be meaningless. People will just figure out the optimal build and everyone will just use that. I'm pretty sure that's literally the reason this kind of thing doesn't exist in the game.
    100% this! I hate custom builds in MMOs because people still force that one best meta build on everyone and if you don't play that meta build, you get kicked out of groups. Sure, you can have a custom build for solo stuff but forget about it if you want to do group content. Source: I also play ESO and GW2 where custom builds and heavily enforced meta builds exist. I'm so glad I don't have to deal with that crap in XIV.
    (10)
    Professional lurker.

  4. #14
    Player
    Sicno's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    654
    Character
    Sandra Dalvia
    World
    Adamantoise
    Main Class
    Warrior Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Saraide View Post
    If steam chart numbers are to be believed that's not exactly working out for SE.
    Wouldn't be surprised if the most relevant metrics behind some decisions were at the cash shop and not subscription numbers.
    (3)
    Naoki Yoshida:
    ...Similarly, these older MMOs also had a system where your house would break down if you didn’t log in after a while in order to have you continue your subscription, but this is a thing of the past and we won't have any system like that.
    Source: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/113554 at 1:14:22

  5. #15
    Player
    VelKallor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2021
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    2,590
    Character
    Vel Kallor
    World
    Kujata
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 100
    If steam chart numbers are to be believed that's not exactly working out for SE.
    Ive commented on this before, but IMO, STEAM numbers alone arent enough. Whilst I am certain some trends may be identifiable, granted, I question its sample size validity. Others disagree, I know.
    (5)

  6. #16
    Player
    Sebazy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    3,468
    Character
    Sebazy Spiritwalker
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Adeacia View Post
    Job custom building would be meaningless. People will just figure out the optimal build and everyone will just use that. I'm pretty sure that's literally the reason this kind of thing doesn't exist in the game.
    The solution to this is to simply make different content require different things so we don't all sit in the same groove. The flexibility of the job system offers so much but SE really fail to capitalise on it in the same manner that FFXI did.

    *edit*

    To clarify, I don't mean that X content requires you to queue as one job, whilst Y requires you to be on another.

    Rather, raid tiers should be designed with more variation in what they demand from the different jobs within each role as to try and give multiple jobs an advantage over each other within fights of the same tier.

    On paper, it's a great way to bust the monotony of people mindlessly following the meta, the downside is of course that the severe homogenisation that we have today makes this kind of difficult.
    (8)
    Last edited by Sebazy; 05-05-2023 at 08:05 PM.
    ~ WHM / badSCH / Snob ~ http://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/871132/ ~

  7. #17
    Player Kolaina's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    1,070
    Character
    Hazy Dreams
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Shinkuno View Post
    And thats the only thing being crowded, the moment you leave the three main cities (or lets be honest, its gridania + limsa, uldah is dead too) its an empty wasteland.
    Im on balmung. Uldah is the most populated there as we get all the degenerates trying to get something they’d never get irl.

    However, anything in the game is technically content, this includes social aspects. We don’t all play the game the same way. I prefer gearing up, getting stronger and collecting mounts. Some play to craft. Others for glamour. Some just to hang out and chat. It’s about both perspective and preference.

    There’s never been content to make people stay active in other zones outside the cities. Fates for relics? Once done the people are gone. Can’t just all meet up in a dungeon. It’s just the way the game is made. Especially when every zone is both level and expansion specific.

    However, the game is still healthy enough. About where it’s always been waiting for a patch
    (4)

  8. #18
    Player
    aveyond-dreams's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2021
    Posts
    2,305
    Character
    Fenris Pendragon
    World
    Spriggan
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 80
    Quote Originally Posted by Adeacia View Post
    Job custom building would be meaningless. People will just figure out the optimal build and everyone will just use that. I'm pretty sure that's literally the reason this kind of thing doesn't exist in the game.
    FFXI has customization via Subjobs and Merits to a limited extent. There have always been builds that are favored for "optimal" use but that doesn't do anything to stop me from enjoying the combinations I prefer to play as. Bar high end raiding, I just don't really care. Just because someone once upon a time said that Summoners in that game should be played as white mages with large mana pools doesn't mean I'm going to. I'd much rather subjob Black Mage/Red Mage/Scholar and throw out nukes in the downtime I have between Blood Pacts.

    The game would be arguably better off had several changes like AST cards and the loss of Bard's unique songs not been made in order to appease people who solely cared about numbers and ruined everyone else's gameplay as a result of the changes they pushed for. Having talents/builds/specs would have alleviated issues like the ongoing war between people who want to be actual Bards vs those who want to be Archers, the great Summoner dilemma, Nocturnal vs Diurnal sect, and others. It's a better alternative than the homogenization that has brought the game to where it is now.
    (6)
    Авейонд-сны


  9. #19
    Player
    Tint's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    In the right-hand attic
    Posts
    4,325
    Character
    Karuru Karu
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    Fisher Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Sebazy View Post
    The solution to this is to simply make different content require different things so we don't all sit in the same groove. The flexibility of the job system offers so much but SE really fail to capitalise on it in the same manner that FFXI did.
    I would absolutely hate this approach.

    So I have to specc my WHM for content A, AST for content B, SCH for C and SGE for D and switch the job depending on the content I want to play?

    But I only ever want to play WHM. And a reskill before I start doing content is cumbersome at best.
    (6)
    It’s a good thing not to answer your enemies. I scarcely ever do. Perhaps Emily is more like me than I am like myself. Perhaps she would rather not answer her friends, even. She keeps it all in her heart.

  10. #20
    Player Shinkuno's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    568
    Character
    Shin Kuno
    World
    Raiden
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 10
    Quote Originally Posted by Tint View Post
    I would absolutely hate this approach.

    So I have to specc my WHM for content A, AST for content B, SCH for C and SGE for D and switch the job depending on the content I want to play?

    But I only ever want to play WHM. And a reskill before I start doing content is cumbersome at best.
    People like you should simply be told "suck it up" by the devs. They NEED to play to the strength of effortlessly swapping between jobs and ignore people like you. You want to only play WHM? Okay you can only play 25% of the content, want the other 75%? Play the other 3 healers too. You dont want that? Thats on you.
    (19)

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