Do people not care enough or does the game do a bad job at teaching?

[DPZ2]

There should be a setting to disable telegraphs for tankbusters, stack markers, aoe markers, floor telegraphs and a lot of other things.

Then there will be that time you forget the fight in a party finder instance, cause a wipe and get kicked because you stood in the bad stuff. (I'm assuming you are serious with that line.)

[Xirean]

Stuff like this is why I want a "Hall of the intermediate" that literally walks you through how a class functions at varying levels. It would really help people learn a basic use of their class but also be a great refresher if you haven't played a class in a while.

[Jeeqbit]

Then there will be that time you forget the fight in a party finder instance, cause a wipe and get kicked because you stood in the bad stuff. (I'm assuming you are serious with that line.)

Doubt it. People manage that with telegraphs without getting kicked.

[Reinha]

The game teaches you enough. Good players didn't play a different game to learn this game. They played this one.

It's 100% on the bad player. No one should be making excuses for stupid, lazy, self centered people who choose to waste other people's time.

[Darkmoonrise]

The core problem is SE *wants* lazy people to p[l]ay the game. So any solution trying to make lazy people do stuff isn't an option, no matter how it is implemented. So what are the possibilities?

Instead of trying to "fix" lazy people, let's try to reward the other.

• First task is to identify those people, for this a ranking system needs to be put in place. Of course this stays anonymous. TBH no idea how to do that. For DPS it's easy, for tank and heal, a little bit less.
• Second task is to adapt the rewards. The more you perform in the instance, the more reward you get. This stays anonymous as well of course. And should be scaled on an absolute scale (aka your performance vs the average performance of people) not relative to the other in the instance.
• The reward should not be displayable (i.e. no glamour reward) because lazy people will have the audacity to say : "I cannot have this, this is not fair!". This could be more tomestone, or a new currency that allows quicker progression (i.e 50 of them allows you to buy a current content HL item)

[NekoMataMata]

Most people just don't care. Personal opinion, but I think the majority of players are capable of performing well in most duties in this game minus ex+. They simply choose not to.

The game does a very thorough job of explaining things to people. In fact it's so thorough that I actually find tutorials like the RPR/SGE ones slow and boring.

[Avoidy]

The former. 95% of the game's content doesn't give you a reason to give a shit. Even in the more challenging moments, you can just get carried by 1 person in your team who knows what they're doing. So yeah, people don't care because they don't have to care. Saying the game does a bad job of teaching, when all they've done is streamline combat to make it easier for people (who never gave a shit anyway) to grasp, is sort of... like.. what more do you want them to do, realistically? Maybe expand the hall of the novice or make it mandatory before entering your first dungeon? Okay. After that, idk. Outside of a few esoteric DPS jobs, most just follow a 123 setup, maybe have a gauge build/spend minigame, and a 2 minute buff with some ogcds you press when they're off cd. Maybe the game could have a mandatory training room going into these basics? I guess that could help newbies.

I do think that for DPS especially, there's really no way for you to know that you're bad unless someone has the balls to tell you. At least on a healer or a tank, if you suck people will die and you'll probably have a hard time clearing, but it's real easy to coast for a long time as a bad dps; you could literally do it wrong all the way to level 90 and just have no idea how hard you're jobbing. In Vindictus, at the end of every round, they'd tell you how much damage the top dps contributed and how much you contributed. This was shared as percentages iirc. You didn't even see everyone's numbers. Just, "here's what the best guy in your group did, and here's you." And from that alone, you can kind of gauge like... am I even with my team? Am I being carried? Is there something else I should be paying attention to? But in XIV, there's legit nada and if that falls into the category of the game being a poor teacher, then yeah the game's a fucking terrible teacher.

[Celine_Aurora]

The game does a very thorough job of explaining things to people.

It really honestly does not. You are fed the actions and are free to read the tooltips. You get a brief explanation of your gauge when unlocking it. That's it.

This game doesn't want us to know how often DoTs tick and for how much or what crit and DH actually do or what action weaving is and how it relates to animation locks. Concepts such as "but how much is Aero worth compared to a Stone cast" should not eb relegated to the realm of esoteric third source research.

[Kacho_Nacho]

(Cross posting this from Reddit)
This will prolly look more like a TFDF post rather than a debate one but will try my best to lead it the other way


For the past few months since i became a mentor i've been doing said roulette, with the number being at 850 at the moment, and with it i've seen pretty much all cases, with the last one happening a moment ago being the one who made me wonder.

This was a SAM, tower of Zot, multiple jobs at 90 already who basically didn't knew anything about their Iajutsu, noticed when pulls were taking longer than normal and only saw 1 of the buffs on their chars and never a Tenka Goken(SAM AOE Iajutsu) and later on a midare

Then i proceed to take like 5 minutes explaining everything to said person, lucky enough the other 2 on the party didn't bother

My first train of thought was, of course, "C'mon man people don't bother to even look a guide", along the multiple Cure 1 healers and other things that should be considered basics at higher dungeon levels

But then after said dungeon i thought as well and as dumb as it sounds, does the SAM quest ever requires you to do said skill even once?

We're talking about in order to clear the whole thing a person could just smash 2 keyslike this one was doing and still make it through

Main questions i want to ask and kinda of a TLDR

-Main one of the post, do you think is a people problem for not caring enough or from the game for not being more exigent on content?

-As a bonus and again maybe will be more of a TFDF thing, tell me if you've encountered a similar experience

I feel the real issue is some people play FFXIV as a game while other take it more seriously. The players who take FFXIV more seriously are annoyed by the lack of effort by the very casual.

Here's the thing, you are never going to change the super casual. They view the MMO in a totally different light than you. By you, I mean the players who want to play their jobs well.

The super casual see FFXIV in the same light as an arcade game. They just go through the game, looking at the content, and pressing buttons. That's how they enjoy the MMO. They don't want to do better because they focus their energies elsewhere.

It's not a "problem." It's just the way things are and it's been going on since the very first games were created. For every chess player attempting to be a grandmaster, there are a hundred who just play chess as a game.

[NekoMataMata]

It really honestly does not. You are fed the actions and are free to read the tooltips. You get a brief explanation of your gauge when unlocking it. That's it.

This game doesn't want us to know how often DoTs tick and for how much or what crit and DH actually do or what action weaving is and how it relates to animation locks. Concepts such as "but how much is Aero worth compared to a Stone cast" should not eb relegated to the realm of esoteric third source research.

I mean okay, sure, but also that's not even relevant information for playing proficiently through the MSQ duties. The game gives you everything you need to succeed at the basic MSQ.

This is to say that the bar is incredibly low, and that the casuals of this game don't care enough to even reach the lowest necessary standards.