Because why not: A Moderate Proposal - SCH

[fulminating]

Not particularly. Then again seraph is pretty close to rouse but 38 levels higher. Aetherpact is a needlessly convoluted targeted heal, dissipation something people like to complain about and sacred soil a fairly situational mitigation until the hot trait. Really bane at 30 is the only “woah change in gameplay” capstone, and that isn’t even there anymore. And also an arcanist button.

[Tigore]

Expedient may be a lower level spell. SCH has some odd reasons for why as Ren was stating with some anti-synergies in the kit. Dissipation makes you lose the fairy and it only buffs the Adlo and Succor spells. It gives you 3 Aether and yet doesn't buff the oGCD heals.

I think others liked the movement speed on it for the Savage raids but it is also not my main cooldown for wall to wall pulls. The first cycle tends to use Whispering Dawn with the Seraph Fairy. Fey Illumination will probably be used here in the first cycle too. Second cycle is essentially a potpourri of almost the rest thrown in together prepping for losing my fairy. I would like to say Dissipation is the main one, but it really only gets used to charge an extra 3 Aether for more Lustrates. Recitation is the true impactful cooldown for my second pull cycle to take advantage of the healing spell boost on Adlo. Expedient gets used a little after the shield is put up. Both cycles make use of Sacred Soil, Excogitation and Lustrate with the Aether cooldowns to keep the tank alive.

[ForsakenRoe]

Expedient 'not feeling like a 90 skill' is echoed across other jobs, eg I don't really feel like Wyrmwind Thrust feels all that strong, but it's used pretty often so it adds up. Phantom Rush looks cool but is actually only a 300 potency increase over TK and has a soft-CD of 2mins. Radiant Finale is... what it is, Chainsaw is 'Drill, again again (but this time with AOE)', Resolution is 'Scorch, again' and SMN's demisummons are 150p stronger than the egi's you've used up til that point.

Expedient, if nothing else, is a 10% mit buff for 20s that sticks to allies, addressing one of the weaknesses of SCH: that people need to stand in Soil for the mitigation. This means that in times where people are spread far AND take damage (Heavensfall, Quickmarch, Blackfire... actually any Ultimate mechanic really, but also things like Act 2, Curtain Call, Gloryplume spread, Intemperance iirc you're spread just too far for a Soil to get the corner people), it's a very welcome addition, even without considering the sprint.

Dissipation/Union/Seraph can suck egg, but other jobs get stinker capstones too. Like Dragonfire Dive jesus christ SE you better fix that one in 7.0

edit: MCH's current 60 capstone is 'you get the final step of your heated 123 combo', it's 30 potency increase over non-heated clean shot, that's pretty sad

[Post]

MCH gets its capstone to its 123 at 64 (Heated Clean Shot), the same level they got them all in StB. MCH is weird leveling since ShB like many jobs, but at least they give em Drill early, which is bonkers overpowered for that level range.

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I'm glad the OP responded with what they see the issues of SCH as being. I think it's fun to sometimes imagine specific toolkits or adjustments, but I prefer to focus on what we enjoy and what we don't enjoy with what's there when trying to give constructive dev feedback.

So, here's a bit of history and how I felt about iterations on SCH over the years.

My first class in FFXIV was CNJ, cuz my bro invited me to the game and his group needed a healer, and it's the only one you can start as. Coming from a crappy WoW private server, I really liked how the game cut down on bullshit like waiting for MP to return, action tooltips that obfuscate how strong your actions are and make comparisons difficult, and healers that could contribute nothing if there was nothing to heal, which tended to happen the more geared your party got in WoW. I leveled both CNJ and ACN because the game let me (and forced me to get ACN to 15 for WHM anyways)! I also enjoy learning what all the jobs can do by trying em out. Eventually, I settled on SCH when we started raiding because we had another WHM and the simple idea on paper of a healer that focused on shields and using a pet to heal sounded intriguing, but since the game made it so easy to swap between them I'd tend to just play whichever, especially once my bro and his friends all quit and I did the PF thing until finding a static for second coils and beyond.

Briefly, I enjoyed WHM because it was simple and powerful, easy to react to stuff going wrong, and I enjoyed SCH because if you knew what you were doing, you could basically go forever and carry a group through anything (true of pretty much all healers to an extent) while contributing damage cheaply. I preferred SCH if I had the choice, but there were benefits to having both in a party.

SCH in ARR required more planning than WHM to heal effectively because actions like Adloquium and Succor applied shields (weaker than they are now; Adlo was 300 potency + 300 potency shield, less overall than WHM's 700 Cure II, and Succor was 150 healing + 150 shield, equivalent to Medica's 300, but weaker than Medica 2's 700 and Cure 3's 550). SCH's "feeling" was planning and mitigation, having a variety of different tools when compared to WHM between oGCD cooldowns that directly healed, greater MP generation, shields and a higher action economy because of the Faerie.

I wanna emphasize just how much more powerful the faerie was before. First, all pet actions were simultaneous, separate actions you could issue WHILE casting, no oGCD weaving needed. Embrace, Faerie's basic heal, used to be 300 potency, which was 3/4ths of a Physick. By synchronizing with their faerie target, it meant that a SCH could cast an equivalent Cure II heal every GCD on whatever target they wanted for the MP cost of Cure I (MP was a much bigger consideration then), or just get free healing every GCD while they continued dealing damage. Left to her own devices, she'd simply heal the target with the lowest hp% as she does now.

On top of this, Eos' Whispering Dawn, is currently 21 sec of 80 healing potency (560 total) where before it was 100 (700 total). SCH's kit emphasized this with Rouse, which buffed all your Faerie's heals by 40% for 20 seconds per minute (increasing Embrace to 420, and aligning with every Whispering Dawn to bring it up to 980 for the whole party). So basically, the Faerie wasn't just a fashion accessory or a proxy some of your oGCDs emit from, it was almost half your toolkit and contributed meaningful healing every GCD.

Eos also brought Fey Covenant (20% damage reduction to all allies from magic for 20 sec every 2 min) and Fey Illumination (20% healing output increase for all allies for 20 sec every 2 min), while Selene could bring Silent Dusk (a silence), Fey Glow/Light (30% spell/skill speed for all allies for 30 sec each, minute cooldown only one could be active at a time) as an alternative to allow for more dps if the healing wasn't necessary. In an alternate history, SCH would go on to get more faeries that do different things like the way SMN's pets used to work instead of them being stripped and consolidated.

Lastly, she had her own aggro table, and you could use her to gather adds or trash packs to tanks by proxy. Kind of less and less important in a post ShB tank stance, no bosses with simultaneous adds gamescape, but it was still a neat trick and a way to even let her tank for you when playing solo.

The Faerie felt much more a part of SCH's identity because you managed it constantly, even while casting, and it carried so much more of your healing and toolkit.

There were certainly complaints throughout the game's history that healers mostly just dps, and this older iteration of SCH was no exception (see this stupid memey flowchart guide to SCH from HW: https://imgur.com/TCdZ11H), but because of SCH's more varied damage options and its reliance on a pet that could heal as it focused on damaging, it felt like a more natural fit for SCH as it was then than it is now.

[ForsakenRoe]

Sorry yes you are correct, it's not MCH's 3 from their 123 but the 2 that gets upgraded at 60, which is arguably even worse feeling

As for 'focusing on the feel' I agree, but at the same time don't. We have the devs saying 'we didn't really know what to do for SCH this time around', right? If we were to say, for example, 'downtime feels bad because we press Broil 120 times in the fight', it's entirely possible the solution they come up with is one that doesn't actually really solve the issue at all. 'A new 1min burst damage button' would make us use less Broils technically, but it does near as nothing to actually fix the problem. Rather, when we make these ideas it's not just that we are saying 'class is bad, do exactly this instead', but that we're providing our view on what it could be, and regardless of if the idea is directly used, or is just a source of inspiration for a different, but equally viable 'fix' to the problem, we'd consider it a worthwhile attempt to contribute.

Take my WHM idea, even if they don't add the damage stuff like Dia rescaling or Banish button and just add the other stuff, it at least helps give the lower levels more to do, and adds a new dimension to the class in the form of 'potentially spend lily on shields instead of healing'. On the flipside, if the only thing they added is the damage side, and not the healing/mit side of the idea, then it means the downtime is more engaging. But that doesn't mean they have to do what I asked exactly. Maybe they decide to add Banish as a 30s CD instead of the 15 I'm asking. Maybe they leave Dia at 30s. Maybe they don't add back the elemental stuff, or the new gauge, and the 'big cool new heal' is just a 60s CD, IDK. But if it at least gives them some fresh ideas, then it's worth me taking the time to write it out, right? Long as it actually fixes issues, at least. If they add the big heal tool and nothing else, it doesn't exactly solve the problem of 'we don't really need to heal much', it'd just be another healing tool on the pile

I just want them to admit, if they are out of ideas, that they are out of ideas. Then they can take steps to find new inspiration, instead of running on fumes and coming up with filler trash. They should take this particular line to heart I think:

[Post]

I see where you're coming from a little better, thanks.

But, is there any historical evidence of them ever taking our more creative ideas and implementing them?

The only instances I can think of are when they specifically address actions like Living Dead being horrible for the DRK alone and adding more work for healers (after so many years) or when they go back and forth on things like AST's Minor Arcana and Crown Play or DRG's Jumps and Mirage Dive being separate actions or the same action (these changes are stupid, by the way, they should strive instead to give players UI options for these types of decisions. AST used to have an 'undraw' action to unload cards when that made sense to, but could still simply "/statusoff "The Balance" <me>" to right-click the buff or whatever if they wanted). More pertinent to SCH, take pet responsiveness feedback and use it to completely rework the faeries from full pets into intangible ghosts that oGCDs emit from.

I think I wouldn't mention it if I actually understood how the feedback pipeline works (if there even is one). I think there's some community reps that gather and translate feedback to devs, but it's difficult to know, and I worry that it just contributes to an unhelpful cacophony.

I certainly would also like for them to be okay with admitting that they're struggling with ideas if they are, and I'm glad that they've started to include some explanations of their decisions regarding balancing in the Job updates. Unfortunately we don't know for sure if we're going to see 'based on player feedback' decisions if they drastically rework jobs.

I would *really* like for the feedback pipeline to be less opaque, though. I've even seen some English speakers try to post on the Japanese Forums because they're worried their voices aren't heard here.

[Tigore]

From what I know of, they tend to tell us what they plan to do for the next patch or expansion through a live letter on the lodestone site. Sometimes a few YouTubers get to interview Yoshida directly and post the video.

I do remember posting some Monk Blitz ideas that required pushing in GCD Actions to determine which spell came up... It's a reality now but I do not know if they accepted the idea or coincidently thought of it on their own.

[Semirhage]

But, is there any historical evidence of them ever taking our more creative ideas and implementing them?

Not that I recall. There's a little precedent for responding to outrage; Scholar in 4.0 was embarrassingly undertuned, left without an AOE other than Bane. They fixed that pretty quickly. And they eventually did something about lilies. But creative suggestions? Crickets. I fear if they do trawl the forums for ideas, the Healer ones are among their least likely. They stopped announcing job changes ahead of time altogether because they were so embarrassed by what we told them regarding the Stormblood lilies.

[GrimGale]

Not that I recall. There's a little precedent for responding to outrage; Scholar in 4.0 was embarrassingly undertuned, left without an AOE other than Bane. They fixed that pretty quickly. And they eventually did something about lilies. But creative suggestions? Crickets. I fear if they do trawl the forums for ideas, the Healer ones are among their least likely. They stopped announcing job changes ahead of time altogether because they were so embarrassed by what we told them regarding the Stormblood lilies.

Were stormblood lillies the single most prominent case that made players doubt the devellopers actually played the classes they designed?

[ForsakenRoe]

IIRC the exact moment they stopped giving patch notes early was when some spreadsheeters did their spreadsheet thing on WAR 4.2 changes (the ones that changed IR to be 'press for 5 free FCs') and decided that, since it was going to change to a 90s CD it'd be misaligned from Trick/2min stuff. Turns out, it being guaranteed crit/dhit was a lot bigger of a buff to the damage WAR dealt than 'it lines up with raidbuffs every time'

Problem with the media tour thing is, if we get the info about say, WHM SB lilies and we go 'these are bloody terrible', chances are by the time the majority of the playerbase get to know (ie, the embargo is up) then it's too late to do anything to fully fix or replace the bad design, only tweak numbers stuff. And the majority of the influencers are some combination of 'dont play healer', 'play healer occasionally but not as main' or 'dont want to anger daddy SE and lose media tour privileges' so stuff slips through