How to Restore Confidence in FFXIV

[Alleluia]

Hiroi, who is supposed to take charge for 7.0's MSQ, must restore the status quo and preferably not take out half the universe like what happened in Endwalker. Better handling of themes, better handling of characters, and above all - some deeper thinking and reflection that could have saved Endwalker's story from hitting all the wrong notes with people.

Endwalker's story only hit all the wrong notes for some people. And seemingly not the majority. For many other people, probably most imo, it was good but had problems. And for the most vocal third of this pie, it hit all the right notes, not the wrong ones. Please specify caveats instead of talking in absolutes like that, thank you.

[aveyond-dreams]

Endwalker's story only hit all the wrong notes for some people. And seemingly not the majority. For many other people, probably most imo, it was good but had problems. And for the most vocal third of this pie, it hit all the right notes, not the wrong ones. Please specify caveats instead of talking in absolutes like that, thank you.

I refuse to engage with people who at this stage are still trying to derail things by turning the conversation towards semantics. This is the only time I care to address this topic in this thread and I will thank you kindly to contribute to discussions in more meaningful ways in the future. I found Endwalker and the way in which it went about its messaging to not meet the standard set in the past.

All Hiroi needs to do is not repeat the mistakes this expansion did with its story and 7.0 will be better by default. Though how in the world he or any other writer is going to try and pick up the pieces of FFXIV's world after Endwalker took a wrecking ball to everything is a mystery I'm not presently equipped to resolve.

I cannot imagine inheriting a project like this.

[VelKallor]

I found Endwalker and the way in which it went about its messaging to not meet the standard set in the past.

I didnt. Guess what..from that alone is proof you dont ever speak for me.

We are all well aware of your "lofty standards", but by what right do you claim that "you know best for others"?

[TowaIsBestGirl]

Like your grandiose claims that you speak for the rest of the community? Which you dont?



I am now VERY curious to tell me just how you came to THAT conclusions.....you are actually claiming that what you've put forward is what others want?

Based on..what exactly?

I didnt. Guess what..from that alone is proof you dont ever speak for me.

We are all well aware of your "lofty standards", but by what right do you claim that "you know best for others"?

How are you so unaware of how hypocritical this makes you look? I'm not overly familiar with that poster, but you show up around certain circles almost as much as they do and so far I've never seen them say they speak for all of the community or even large swathes of it. Meanwhile, you're constantly speaking on how you liked something, others don't speak for you and that makes them wrong. Like, you literally say these things ad verbatim. Your choice of words is always mired in the use of possessive pronouns, and I legitimately struggle to comprehend how the irony of this escapes you.

Your overly abrasive demeanor towards other posters also rubs me the wrong way far more than that poster does. Maybe they come on a little too strong, but you're constantly snapping your jaws at others.

[TaleraRistain]

I'm not overly familiar with that poster, but you show up around certain circles almost as much as they do and so far I've never seen them say they speak for all of the community or even large swathes of it.

He doesn't come right out and say "I speak for the community" but the phrases like "overarching consensus" "the majority of the playerbase" "the obvious truth" "nobody wanted to X" and other absolutes are constantly peppered through the things he says. A lot of us here give feedback and make it a point to use terms like "I" or make it clear that it's our opinion and others are free to differ. That's not something that he tends to do. His opinions are never his own. They have to be communal. And I think people could look past that as just ego if he didn't also insult anyone who doesn't agree with him with passive aggressive remarks like "those of us who like something more adult" when talking about current story as he's done in other threads and don't even get me started on the "this person is a 3" thread.

Nobody wants to try to debate with someone who is going to dismiss what they say and insult their differing point of view before they even get to make it. So that history is why some people are bristling in this thread. The first post in this thread is probably the most neutral I've seen him and if we can get more like that, then I think he wouldn't get the same reactions.

[TowaIsBestGirl]

He doesn't come right out and say "I speak for the community" but the phrases like "overarching consensus" "the majority of the playerbase" "the obvious truth" "nobody wanted to X" and other absolutes are constantly peppered through the things he says. A lot of us here give feedback and make it a point to use terms like "I" or make it clear that it's our opinion and others are free to differ. That's not something that he tends to do. His opinions are never his own. They have to be communal. And I think people could look past that as just ego if he didn't also insult anyone who doesn't agree with him with passive aggressive remarks like "those of us who like something more adult" when talking about current story as he's done in other threads and don't even get me started on the "this person is a 3" thread.

Nobody wants to try to debate with someone who is going to dismiss what they say and insult their differing point of view before they even get to make it. So that history is why some people are bristling in this thread. The first post in this thread is probably the most neutral I've seen him and if we can get more like that, then I think he wouldn't get the same reactions.

That's fair, I suppose. Though, at the same time I've seen other posters conduct themselves in the unpalatable way you describe so it may be best to call out all offenders and not merely some if those who take umbrage what's being posted wish for their point to be taken seriously. Obviously this is just my own advice, and it's largely meaningless to others but regardless I believe that clearly visible bias and partiality proffers negative hits to the credibility of a critic.

[TaleraRistain]

That's fair, I suppose. Though, at the same time I've seen other posters conduct themselves in the unpalatable way you describe so it may be best to call out all offenders and not merely some if those who take umbrage what's being posted wish for their point to be taken seriously. Obviously this is just my own advice, and it's largely meaningless to others but regardless I believe that clearly visible bias and partiality proffers negative hits to the credibility of a critic.

Oh I'm by no means saying that he's the only one. He's just incredibly egregious about it and he's turned a lot of people off even communicating with him. I was pleasantly surprised to see the neutral take in this OP. I don't agree with all points, but I do think at least using just the OP (and not other posts that have been made in this thread) it would be a good place to start a civil and productive discussion. So I know you have me on ignore, Av, but I do give you credit for showing willing to debate in good faith.

[TowaIsBestGirl]

Sorry to jump back to that, but I think some people just love to complain, and would even pay money playing a game they clearly hate and know won't change to suit their preferences just to complain about it. *Shrugs* It's their money I guess...

Why is this such an ever-prevalent attitude on these forums? Have people forgotten the entire reason critique exists is for games to get better? The logic is all funky here, people criticize because they care. If they truly hated it, they'd just unsub and go about their business. Has it never occurred to some here that if some posters seem to hate the game, it's less that they actually do and maybe that some of you come into the forums with pre-existent preconceptions of who they're supposed to be?

We need new lands with new people and NO MORE SCIONS or STUDENTS OF BALDESION. We need reasons to get out in the world instead of hanging out in the capital cities at the aetherytes.

I don't really clamor for all the Scions to be gone, I doubt I'd enjoy that all that much. But is one or two not being there for a quest or two too much to ask? People speak a lot of guff about them not all being present at one time, but at least one or two of them is nearly always present with nearly no breaks. I don't personally feel this way, but I don't blame those who are sick of them. Variety is the spice of life after all, and Zero can only cover so much ground in that regard.

Endwalker's story only hit all the wrong notes for some people. And seemingly not the majority. For many other people, probably most imo, it was good but had problems. And for the most vocal third of this pie, it hit all the right notes, not the wrong ones. Please specify caveats instead of talking in absolutes like that, thank you.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/majority

Citations, please. Receipts, if thou wouldst. Since we're talking specifics, now.

[Kacho_Nacho]

I don't really clamor for all the Scions to be gone, I doubt I'd enjoy that all that much. But is one or two not being there for a quest or two too much to ask? People speak a lot of guff about them not all being present at one time, but at least one or two of them is nearly always present with nearly no breaks. I don't personally feel this way, but I don't blame those who are sick of them. Variety is the spice of life after all, and Zero can only cover so much ground in that regard.

It isn't that I hate them. It's that I feel their individual story arcs are mostly completed, and with the end of the world avoided, I feel continuing with a Scions heavy storyline would just be more of the same thing.

In fact, I think the developers painted themselves in a corner with EW. What can the WoL do to top saving the entire Universe? Suggesting some warlord in the void world is somehow a threat to the person who beat the most powerful threat in all existence is downright silly.

I know it's just a game but there's got to be some logic involved in the storyline.

[Jeeqbit]

I feel continuing with a Scions heavy storyline would just be more of the same thing.

I think so too. They can still be there, retired, but we need a new gang in a new place.

What can the WoL due to top saving the entire Universe?

It's because it's a Final Fantasy game. In Final Fantasy games, you save the world or the universe. This has been what it leads to in any Final Fantasy game I have played. So Yoshi-P feels that he has to match that fantasy and go with whatever will involve saving the world with the most fantasy he can find.

The downside of that is obvious. When they've saved the universe, anything else seems like retirement for the Warrior of Light. Saving a city from a local crime lord and their army? That is actually what the Warrior of Light will do as retirement when they are 80, and they will do it with only one hand blind-folded, just to even the odds.

But it's not as if I haven't started a new story before by playing other games or watching other films, and sometimes the unfamiliar can temporarily be challenging even to the greatest hero until they adapt. So maybe we will find something of lesser threat to be challenging at first, then we'll see how it moves and defeat it. Like everything else. I am certain that will be how they explain it because that is how they explained it in Stormblood. Zenos wouldn't normally be a threat to us, but the resonant was unfamiliar to us so it took us a bit to adapt to it, but then we defeated him like all the rest.