This game is on a terrible state right now.

[Tint]

There's been innovation this expansion. Variant/Criterion is something different.

How was it received by players? "Yo, SE, the game play was like fun going around figuring things out. But where are the rewards? I don't like what rewards you gave it. I need better rewards."

With that sort of response, what is SE supposed to think? Are players actually looking for innovation or are they just looking for more of certain rewards?

They should think that people are sad that this new content is finished after just 4 hours (12 runs for the notes, one takes 20 minutens) and that there is no reason to ever set foot into this new awesome dungeon again (well I thought it was boring but whatever).

Even if you go slow the variant dungeon can barely entertain you for more than 3 evenings.

And criterion is overtuned for the majority of playerbase and yes it takes too much effort for too little rewards. When you have to decide between progressing savage raids or criterion dungeon... which one rewards your time spent better?

[Jojoya]

They should think that people are sad that this new content is finished after just 4 hours (12 runs for the notes, one takes 20 minutens) and that there is no reason to ever set foot into this new awesome dungeon again (well I thought it was boring but whatever).

Even if you go slow the variant dungeon can barely entertain you for more than 3 evenings.

And criterion is overtuned for the majority of playerbase and yes it takes too much effort for too little rewards. When you have to decide between progressing savage raids or criterion dungeon... which one rewards your time spent better?

I suppose that depends on not just what rewards you enjoy but what rewards you currently need/desire.

Generally, we're always going to prioritize content that gives us what we currently feel we need first. Once that needs is taken care of, then we move to the things we want or maybe just find fun.

Perhaps the problem with Criterion was really the timing. It was released a few weeks after Abyssos. It makes sense that Criterion wouldn't feel compelling when it doesn't reward BiS gear at a time in the expansion cycle that players are farming for the new BiS gear.

How would players have felt if Criterion had been released in 6.35 instead of 6.25? By then, most statics would have had Abyssos cleared and BiS gear for at least their main jobs if not also one or two of their alt jobs. They've got less to do and are starting to think about 6.4. Perhaps they aren't interested in the glamour or housing items for personal use but they're a good way to make gil for buying the things that will be needed to start Anabaseios progression.

Do you think timing the release differently might have made players (not necessarily yourself) feel better about Criterion?

Edit to add in that one glaring problem with Criterion is it failed to address the lack of midcore content the player base is looking for. But it was still something that was innovative for the game and should be given credit for at least that much.

[Tint]

Do you think timing the release differently might have made players (not necessarily yourself) feel better about Criterion?

Edit to add in that one glaring problem with Criterion is it failed to address the lack of midcore content the player base is looking for. But it was still something that was innovative for the game and should be given credit for at least that much.

I think the main problem are the rewards, not the timing. Savage raiders will clear Criterion sooner or later. In the long weeks between patch 6.5 and the next expansion this will become a good way to spend your time while hyped up for 7.0.

A more desireable mount would help as well, instead of an ugly chair.

But the main problem is the lack of gear. It takes basically as much effort to keep a static group of 8 people together as it takes to clear the fights. Many people could clear savage but don't want to bother with so many people or even random parties.

But a savage mode for 4 people? And with gear? That would lower the barrier of entry for many people. But of course then savage raids compete directly with criterion and likely savage will lose out.

I would love to have an alternative to savage raids, but I guess the better way would be to place Criterion below savage, more in line with ex trials, more approachable for the average player. Then they probably can put gear with a lower item level into it (10 ilvl below savage? Shared lockout with savage? Upgradeable in the next patch?) and they have to add a nice mount.

----

Well I personally plan to do Criterion. But our 4 man party wants to do the Deep Dungeons first, just finished Heavon on High and everyone got the horse mount. I will likely never run out of things to do. Over 20k hours logged and the list of stuff I want to do goes on and on.
But I see that the content we got in EW is lackluster anyway. I am only really satisfied with Eureka Orthos.

----

Edit:

The problem Criterion is so hard to incorporate into the game is a gripe I have for a long time: Tomestone gear is just too good. There is no room between savage raids and tomestone gear for anything.

In 2.0 the tomestone gear was kind of a failsafe for the raid gear. But the raids have their own failsafe mechanic added. Tomestone gear simply has no business being that strong. It should be dialed back to the level of normal raid and crafted gear. Then not only can Criterion get it's own gear, the 24 man raid gear will become more than just glamour as well.

[ForteNightshade]

snip

The release of Criterion wouldn't have changed the reaction.

People need an incentive to keep farming content intended to last a whole patch cycle, much less several. Take Euphrosyne, for example. If you remove the rewards, which are primarily glamour and not gear upgrades for a lot of people, the raid is dead within the same month. Trying to unlock it in a later patch would take hours of sitting in queue. All this despite people openly praising the content save for it a being a bit too easy.

You can apply this to almost any piece of content. In fact, one of the reasons Trials can take forever (Endsinger, Shinryu, Barba and etc) is the roulette gives paltry rewards. Thus, people don't often queue. The same problem arises with Legacy Roulette.

Circling back to Criterion, it suffered from a bigger problem: tuning. For whatever reason they decided against their original plan of a Normal, EX and Savage variant. The EX version is on par with the current Abyssos tier's earlier fights. One could make a strong argument Zeless Gah is even harder than Carby or Hegemone. So now we're taking on near Savage caliber bosses for an ugly chair mount you could just buy outright. Savage is even more comical, demanding you play perfect for... a single grade X materia. The latter is downright insulting and completely destroys any reason to farm the content.

At the end of the day, Criterion just doesn't have an audience for how they've tuned it. Due to the increased difficulty of the supposed "EX" version, it pushes out the majority of midcore players and the Savage version just isn't with the investment for one than a single clear. Innovation alone is not enough without replayability, which Criterion simply doesn't have.

[Deceptus]

Innovation alone is not enough without replayability,

A lesson CBU3 has seemed to have forgotten.

[MonteCristo]

The release of Criterion wouldn't have changed the reaction.

People need an incentive to keep farming content intended to last a whole patch cycle, much less several. Take Euphrosyne, for example. If you remove the rewards, which are primarily glamour and not gear upgrades for a lot of people, the raid is dead within the same month. Trying to unlock it in a later patch would take hours of sitting in queue. All this despite people openly praising the content save for it a being a bit too easy.

You can apply this to almost any piece of content. In fact, one of the reasons Trials can take forever (Endsinger, Shinryu, Barba and etc) is the roulette gives paltry rewards. Thus, people don't often queue. The same problem arises with Legacy Roulette.

Circling back to Criterion, it suffered from a bigger problem: tuning. For whatever reason they decided against their original plan of a Normal, EX and Savage variant. The EX version is on par with the current Abyssos tier's earlier fights. One could make a strong argument Zeless Gah is even harder than Carby or Hegemone. So now we're taking on near Savage caliber bosses for an ugly chair mount you could just buy outright. Savage is even more comical, demanding you play perfect for... a single grade X materia. The latter is downright insulting and completely destroys any reason to farm the content.

At the end of the day, Criterion just doesn't have an audience for how they've tuned it. Due to the increased difficulty of the supposed "EX" version, it pushes out the majority of midcore players and the Savage version just isn't with the investment for one than a single clear. Innovation alone is not enough without replayability, which Criterion simply doesn't have.

This was basically going to be my response @jojoya