Why is the PvP Shadowstalker set unavailable permanently?

[Joven]

It's because it feels terrible to start a game, see somethng you really like, and then hear that it's impossible to get and you should have played earlier. It'd be like if I made a character and saw someone with an UWU weapon, asked how I could get one, and they mentioned that only people who cleared in the first month of UWU's release got them and they were forever unobtainable.
It would feel awful and I'd obviously ask for it to be reintroduced so I could get a shot of earning it legit. I don't really care much about PvP or PvP rewards but I can sympathize with people who really want to be able to earn something but just hear they can't get it.

Maybe to incentivize participation? What's the point of having all these seasonal events when all the items from them is going up on the mogshop later? There's no incentive to run them any more as you can just pick them up later if you really wanted them.

Personally I don't even think things like EX and Savage trials should be unsync-able. Let the people willing to put the effort in earn something unique.

[Packetdancer]

Do I get ultimate weapons with grinding wipes?

No, but neither are ultimate weapons limited to the first 100 clears on a datacenter, and then forever unobtainable.

Ultimates do not play on FOMO, because there's no "MO" there; even if someone joins the game right now, in January 2023, they can still obtain a UCoB title and weapon! (When they reach level 70, anyway.) Similarly, take the Palace of the Dead; it's not like the Necromancer title goes only to the first 100 who cleared it solo on a datacenter, anyone can still get the Necromancer title to this day.

Whereas someone who joins the game right now, in January 2023, cannot get Feast ranking awards from the Stormblood era. Ever. It does not matter if they become the undisputed best PvP player across every datacenter, they are forever blocked from obtaining those things.

Moreover, artificially limiting the rewards to, say, a top 100 group as was done with the Feast in the past... I mean, it incentivizes people who might otherwise not cheat into cheating, because it instills a sense of desperation for some that can push them into making dumb choices.

Think of how we saw a non-zero number of people bot or cheat their way to the Saint titles for the Ishgard Restoration, for much the same reason; it's a title that was only obtainable that one time, and never again.

It's the same way gacha games use time-limited "exclusive" characters to try to spur FOMO and drive people to spend money on loot boxes in hope of getting that character before it goes away. Or how Destiny 2 tries to use FOMO to make their game literally addictive, because if you don't get rank X before date Y in event Z, you won't get shader Q or exotic weapon R.

Even you note that there was a huge Frontlines bot problem in the past; I'll point out it seemed especially bad when people freaked out over Garo going away and tried to panic-grind out the mount. Which is FOMO in action, pure and simple.

Still so many point fingers at the evil PvP players who "just cheated and traded their way to top100" instead of pointing to devs to change the FOMO structure.

I mean... this thread is basically saying "could we maybe not do the FOMO structure". That is... more or less the point of the thread? (Albeit maybe less explicitly than the other current PvP thread where that is basically a paraphrasing of the title...)

I don't think anyone cares if the PvP glams of the past are hard to obtain, but having them utterly unable to be obtained at all doesn't really seem to have any long-term benefit to the game. All it will do is make players who come to the game after those things are no longer available feel sad and depressed that they can't get them.

(And generally, making your players sad/depressed is not the goal of a game developer.)

FWIW, putting on my "game dev used to be my day job" hat for a moment, how I would personally handle it would be to have an overall rewards pool; each season, you add a new set of rewards. Each season, the folks eligible for the rewards can pick from the entire pool. Now you have exclusivity -- anyone who got a given reward ranked high in PvP! -- and folks who win every season would always have a new prize available, but you also continue to provide a path for newcomers to the game to obtain the things they would otherwise be shut out of simply by virtue of time.

But realistically, given how this game has handled things in the past, they're more likely to put 'Replica <whatever>' or 'Virtu <something>' in the normal PvP prize pool. Hence why I used that as an example.

[icemage]

Does Square Enix even care about their customers these days? Or are they afraid that the few hundred PvP cheaters will cry if they ever do this?

[EliaStormblade]

Does Square Enix even care about their customers these days? Or are they afraid that the few hundred PvP cheaters will cry if they ever do this?

I dunno. We still have no idea if they plan to bring old Feast rewards back or not. It was hinted that they might, though that could've just been for all post-PvP rework rewards alone.

Only time will tell, I think. I personally am a proponent for Feast rewards returning. Want it to take some effort to acquire, of course.

[Nihility]

it's kind of how the prestiege pvp rewards have been in most mmo's for a very long time.
I suppose it is a bit of a shame that the FFXIV ones were all so good for such limited sets but at this point taking away the promise of exclusivity that the people did the event for is a bad choice.

better to be glad that the limited pvp sets don't have a player limit anymore than lament about the past that is already gone

[icemage]

it's kind of how the prestiege pvp rewards have been in most mmo's for a very long time.
I suppose it is a bit of a shame that the FFXIV ones were all so good for such limited sets but at this point taking away the promise of exclusivity that the people did the event for is a bad choice.

better to be glad that the limited pvp sets don't have a player limit anymore than lament about the past that is already gone

Exclusivity in terms of skill or grind is fine. That's why we have Ultimate weapons. Exclusivity because you are a old player seems to be the kind of archaic MMO design that FF14 should've gotten rid of.

[ElysiumDragon]

The question is, is FF14's PvP for sweaty people who want to mixmax every aspect of it, or is it a casual side activity that anyone can do?

That I think is the key question that needs answering, because with how PvP rewards are both historically and currently, SE are trying to cater to both demographics in an inefficient way.

Maybe the idea of a 'ranking system' with significant rewards tied to it is in and of itself the problem? If the incentive for getting sweaty at PvP was something less tangible but still desirable, such as fame or popularity (something you couldn't reliably earn through cheating/wintrading), then maybe that could be another way of doing high-end PvP?

Also yeah, I'd say to add a vendor for old PvP rewards/Battle Pass rewards, but have them cost a bunch of Wolf Marks/Collars, and also timegate them by 2-3 seasons. That way, they're still accessible in-game eventually, but have a substantial wait time behind them, a bit like with the events.

[Ardeth]

Necro bumping thread. Fomo is terrible game design. I'd play your god-awful pvp and unlock this if it wasn't unobtainable. Be better than Blizzard.

[Denji]

Necro bumping thread. Fomo is terrible game design. I'd play your god-awful pvp and unlock this if it wasn't unobtainable. Be better than Blizzard.

Agreed.

I don't mind it being locked for like, -that expansion- and then make it available because it's literally just "oops, all sweaty tryhards!" and cheaters.

For a game that prides itself on you being able to walk away, unsub and then come back it's pretty clear that isn't actually the case.

[Shougun]

Already said I don't like permanent FOMO, and still feel that way but adding in context- I have one of the exclusive pvp armors... some long release delay seems fine if it is going to be super special but still have no qualms with it coming back and do actually find the concept of "never coming back" more troublesome.