So why are the crafter relics.. bad.

[Kaurhz]

snipping.

Oh really? I never would have known in my 8+ years of playing, thank you for such an eye-opening and informative statement. (/s) - Regardless of whether the progression is rendered moot in the long-term scheme of things, this does not matter nor does it detract from the satisfaction that one might have in achieving an objective, this has by far got to be one of the most reductive arguments I've quite possibly seen in a while, most especially when you don't seem to take the common courtesy of reading the post.

The argument was never whether these were needed, just whether the reward and the requirement therein would match, most especially for something that is known to be a relic and for a tool that people claim should be better than Indagator. If such should be the case then it needs either a more progressed system wherein the tool rewarded matches the grind required or a more upfront grind. The keyword in this paragraph is better, by the way.

No, my argument is not built on the assumption that every player uses macro crafts. It is built on the fact that absolutely everyone can craft the recipes required for the relic with drastically under-tuned stats that otherwise wouldn't be possible with even Pactmaker, or the more appropriate Indagator gear, so in this sense, they should not exceed that of pentamelded Indagator (just yet). If you feel insistent that this is not the case then I am more than happy to provide you with some evidence showing that it is otherwise possible without BiS, or pentameld.

Furthermore, I never disputed otherwise. My only dispute with respect to this was that if people wish for a tool that is measurably better than Indagator gear then more effort should be required to obtain such, either through an iterative/progressive system or through a more outright stringent grind to do so. Not that people should not have the tool in the first place. So how about you stop, read the posts, and then think, re-read them again, and then think, then reply in the future?