So why are the crafter relics.. bad.

[VeyaAkemi]

Anyway, how hard are the relics to get? I have pentamelded Indagator for body gear and accessories, but single-melded tools, is that difference going to be in any way substantial?

[DiaDeem]

If you are refering to the 'Increases to quality are 1.75 times higher when the material condidition is good'

No, they'll get higher Control/Crafting/CP stats all around. Indagator is the last crafted set we'll get for Endwalker, just like the Aesthete stuff was the last set we got in Shadowbringers. I didn't finish my Skysteel tools, but just my Skysung Needle has better stats than the Aesthete's Needle, and it's not even the finished version.

Aesthete's Needle HQ (iLv 490)
Craftsmanship: +806
Control: +441
5 Materia Slots

Skysung Needle (iLv 500)
Craftsmanship: +830
Control: +455
CP: +6

Skybuilders' Needle (iLv 510) Complete Relic
Craftsmanship: +854
Control: +468
CP: +6

So not only will we get better stats for sure, we'll also get the bonus on quality steps, which the Skysteel Tools didn't have, if I remember correctly.

[Gemina]

The TLDR from this is 'if you manage to hit a good on IQ2+ then the relic is better, for expert recipes'.

Now how many expert recipes are there in Endwalker, since pre-endwalker recipes can just be brute forced via macros.

Is the relic perk actually worth the small niche use that it gets used for?

Like I said before, you need to overmeld your tools in order to actually gain anything, particularly with the control stat. And you lose one of those slots if you decide to meld CP in order to negate the loss of the +7 stat from the crystalline tools. You also need to keep in mind that not all players are in i620 gear, and the relic tools will undoubtedly help the ones who are not get there.

Another thing to keep in mind are for the players who have put in the effort to craft and pentameld their tools. Do you really think it is favorable for a first stage relic tool to just wipe out that effort?

As for expert recipes, the value of doing those recipes is up to the player. I would wager most crafters don't even touch them, and the crystalline tools can encourage more players to try them without enduring the expense of pentamelds.

[TaleraRistain]

Will there, though?

They already showed screenshots of the next steps in 6.45 during the Live Letter. And anyone who halfway paid attention during the story already knew more was coming.

To the OP, stats on these are currently on par with the most recent crafted. They'll be better on the next step. It remains to be seen how the effect changes, if it just improves what's there or offers something different. And these aren't that useful for someone who has pentamelded Indagator's outside things like Expert recipes but they are good for those who don't already have those or don't really want to deal with pentamelding.

[Kaurhz]

There was no win-win with this. On one hand they lul behind until the expansion is near concluded, alternatively they can put the relic ahead of crafted tools immediately, and in doing so you render the crafted tools irrelevant.

Simply put, the relic is progressive and is still a WIP, so they will end up being better, or on-par with pentamelded main-hand tool by the end of the expansion.

[Troxbark]

and in doing so you render the crafted tools irrelevant.

Uh no, we shouldn't prioritize tools that you can buy off the marketboard.

This just another one of the many gearing problems in this game.

[Kaurhz]

Uh no, we shouldn't prioritize tools that you can buy off the marketboard.

This just another one of the many gearing problems in this game.

Doesn't really matter either way, you still bump into some form of deficit/issue.

you need to promote multiple methods of attaining gear, regardless of whether this is done through the market board or other means. To put this into perspective, if we were to go according to a direction wherein the crafter relics are immediately better then what precisely is the point in crafting the 610 main-hands in the first place and even engaging in the gearing process for these tools considering you can't even use said tools to craft the relic in the first place?

I'm sorry, but whilst you think this may resolves the problem, you just create problems in other areas as a result. So there will be a problem regardless, and crafting is in a weird state anyway in that... Let's say you make them tools be 625 compared to 620 as a nice little middle-ground, this won't always translate to a practical use e.g., overflowing quality and overflowing progress whilst not actually changing rotations or the efficiency in the first place.

E.g., in general use outside of very niche use-case, whilst the Skysteel tools were equal, if not superior to Penta-melded Aesthete's tools, and this was only a false sense because it changed absolutely nothing in terms of efficiency (Outside of expert recipes - Which these tools already cover)

[Iyrnthota]

Anyway, how hard are the relics to get? I have pentamelded Indagator for body gear and accessories, but single-melded tools, is that difference going to be in any way substantial?

I managed it easy enough with non-pentamelded Indigator stuff, so if you have anything pentamelded, you're already a step ahead of me.

Took a bit of testing to finagle my rotation into maximising my output, but in the end it wasn't too bad. Worst case scenario you need to make 10%* more of the mats than a full pentameld gear set would need, but it's absolutely possible.

*disclaimer, this figure has been entirely guesstimated, I can't actually remember

[Atelier-Bagur]

Its not necessarily hard, just more time consuming. Pentameld and craftinh the indagator gear to HQ from scratch is a lot harder and more time consuming since you need to round up a lot more materials and battle with rng and money for materia melds.

If you havent done so, I say getting the relic is very much worthwhile.

[VeyaAkemi]

If you havent done so, I say getting the relic is very much worthwhile.

Yeah, my thought process was, "Pentamelding these 10 items(body/accessories) make a lot of sense, even if it's costly, they benefit 8 different classes and will affect every craft I make up to until 7.0, pentamelding these 16 items does not, it'd be even more costly, and they only cover one class each".

I guess I will go ahead and start it today, if nothing else they look really nice.