"You pull, you tank" is a bad mentality

[RitsukoSonoda]

This thing is still going?

In the end both sides of this argument are being stupid. People need to realize those other characters in the duty are actually other people and not NPC's This whole argument was literally born of people with the "i'm the Hero and everyone else is an NPC" mentality caused by the game's design falling more into a single player game than a multiplayer one and then having a fit or meltdown when the "NPCs" don't do what they want or tell them to.

[CelestiCer]

Hell, I tank it even if the tanks pull first and are supposed to tank. Be it Extreme, AllianceRaids or Savage. Specially Savage... Like hey Einstein I'm a Samurai! I am not the 2nd tank, will you keep enmity and tank swap properly and let me not eat the 5th tankbuster 5 times in 5 pulls Dx !! I'm here to help you clear!! stop killing me DX<

[Kewitt]

I played THF as my main in FFXI. That game was based on 4 roles and it was often the job of the support to do the pulling.
In the 3 role system
Tank's job to pull this is the cast for basically every MMO with 3 roles.
Here is why getting ahead of the tank isn't a good idea.

If the tank knows what they are doing after the 1st, they will gauge the party and know how much DPS healing is happening and how fast they can go and will pull as fast as they feel safe doing.
I main Warrior in FFXIV

If the tank doesn't do the above it often means they aren't confident with the job and pulling faster than they are ok with making it so they aren't having fun in a game but getting stressed out.
When my hubby plays PLD which he really likes playing he pulls slowly. So I normally play healer and I pull when he is going slow because I know what I can handle healing. But I wouldn't do that to someone I don't know.

Sadly tanks set the pace of the party. If you want to go faster and don't want to play tank maybe the community is telling you something.

[Xirean]

I played THF as my main in FFXI. That game was based on 4 roles and it was often the job of the support to do the pulling.
In the 3 role system
Tank's job to pull this is the cast for basically every MMO with 3 roles.
Here is why getting ahead of the tank isn't a good idea.

If the tank knows what they are doing after the 1st, they will gauge the party and know how much DPS healing is happening and how fast they can go and will pull as fast as they feel safe doing.
I main Warrior in FFXIV

If the tank doesn't do the above it often means they aren't confident with the job and pulling faster than they are ok with making it so they aren't having fun in a game but getting stressed out.
When my hubby plays PLD which he really likes playing he pulls slowly. So I normally play healer and I pull when he is going slow because I know what I can handle healing. But I wouldn't do that to someone I don't know.

Sadly tanks set the pace of the party. If you want to go faster and don't want to play tank maybe the community is telling you something.

So you pull despite your hubby not wanting to pull more stuff? And you say the tank sets the pace afterwards? Not a lot of consistency there.

[Velvet_Lunarfang]

Nah. No-one is the boss. It's collaborative. Besides, other players can and will dictate the momentum.

not if I got my pocket healer. This game is for every body right. Everyone preaches on here we have to cater to everyone from casuals to hardcore. So if that tank wants to pull how they want to pull then I guess you have to suck it up and deal with it. All is fair if we are to include EVERYONE

[Kolaina]

So you pull despite your hubby not wanting to pull more stuff? And you say the tank sets the pace afterwards? Not a lot of consistency there.

Right. Read that and thought “so you’re doing what you say you shouldn’t because you’re confident in your skill”…
So by that logic, doing the same thing as a whm main, there’s no issue here.

[Iyrnthota]

not if I got my pocket healer. This game is for every body right. Everyone preaches on here we have to cater to everyone from casuals to hardcore. So if that tank wants to pull how they want to pull then I guess you have to suck it up and deal with it. All is fair if we are to include EVERYONE

There's an implication here that if the DPS pulled extra, then as the healer, you wouldn't heal them

[RobynDaBank]

not if I got my pocket healer. This game is for every body right. Everyone preaches on here we have to cater to everyone from casuals to hardcore. So if that tank wants to pull how they want to pull then I guess you have to suck it up and deal with it. All is fair if we are to include EVERYONE

Iunno. If by "pocket healer" you mean the random sod who doesn't want conflict: I'd heal you if you were single-pulling, but I'd definitely be a tad grumbly about it behind the screen. I don't really agree with being conservative with pulls when you 1. have adequate gear for the instance and 2. know to cycle your defensives, so while I would definitely heal you out of just wanting to play my role in the party and not being another stick in the mud, I would hate being considered your pocket healer.

If you mean a friend, kind of sad to know you're in the "wrong" by needing your friend to back you up and help vote-kicking any dissidents, and you still continue to do it.

[dspguy]

I played THF as my main in FFXI. That game was based on 4 roles and it was often the job of the support to do the pulling.

I played FFXI extensively before they raised the cap to 99. Generally speaking, in a "pull-to-camp" scenario, the tank was not the puller. This was due to the design of the game. The puller would go off to find the next mob when the pulled mob was getting low in HP. They would stay in range for the experience while trying to bring in the next mob.

This required communication within the group (healers have enough MP, tank has provoke/flash/etc ready to grab hate) while also being aware of the experience chain pull timer.

This game doesn't have a "pull-to-camp" type setup in most scenarios. It is a bum rush as far as you can where most other jobs can't absorb the incoming damage long enough to make sense to have the DPS be out in front. Besides, let's say the DPS did run through the mobs... and starts single targeting one of them... then the healer drops a large heal on the DPS before they die. Now we have 6 mobs on the healer and 1 on the DPS and 1 on the other DPS... that's likely 3 GCDs by the tank to get them under control. All the while... AOEs do better.

It just isn't efficient to have DPS pull in the vast majority of content available in this game.

When it comes to toxic behavior, there are times when the tank not pulling wall-to-wall is just due to inexperience. That isn't toxic. But the response to how the tank is pulling by pulling over the tank is always toxic.

Communicate by words instead of toxic behavior.

[Xirean]

When it comes to toxic behavior, there are times when the tank not pulling wall-to-wall is just due to inexperience. That isn't toxic. But the response to how the tank is pulling by pulling over the tank is always toxic.

Communicate by words instead of toxic behavior.

Normally I would be down for this approach/interpretation but there's an obstruction to this being the go to answer and that's the speed of communication. During a pull you often don't actually have time to put out a quick message or start a discussion, there's just too much going on. That's even more a factor if someone is playing on console and only has the onscreen keyboard. If we had voice comms it would be different but that's just not the case.

I've grown more accustomed to using non chat based communication of intention by just viewing what people do. Are people moving past me? Are they using sprint? Did someone grab an extra pack? This group/person probably wants to go faster. This also works in reverse for slower pulls. I've actually had a healer use rescue to pull me backwards to prevent me from pulling more and that message was loud and clear of what they wanted.

I don't think people are trying to be rude by just doing things but rather it's just the practical answer.