I know ARR was cut down but it really needs more done with it.

[Adeacia]

I didn't have a problem with the ARR MSQ the first time I did it, and it was years before they made the changes.

I was just enjoying the game all around. I also recognize world building and building up to something over time. As was already stated in this thread, you can't just have action, action, action in a story.

[Jeeqbit]

The titan bit was a bit of a slog for me but since I was new to the game it didn't really matter. It provided some time to explore between events. There is a dungeon involved in it as well, Brayflox. None of the rest of ARR was really a slog for me, except the very beginning where I had to hand out food to people and couldn't use a mount to get to them. I also personally enjoyed all of ARR, so it's really just an opinion when some people don't like it.

The only things they could really change, other than the titan part, is making mounts available from the start and making all aetherytes attuned when you enter the area for the first time. Part of the issue is that with Eorzea being our home that we always come back to, we have to circulate around the city states doing story, whereas in any expansion we are exploring new territory so it can be more linear and not make us teleport around. The only other way that could be solved is to make an alternate MSQ that begins in 7.0 or another expansion, which makes it linear from the start.

[Deo14]

I didn't have a problem with the ARR MSQ the first time I did it, and it was years before they made the changes.

I was just enjoying the game all around. I also recognize world building and building up to something over time. As was already stated in this thread, you can't just have action, action, action in a story.

Why not? We have cutscene, cutscene, cutscene in a videogame and yet it somehow works. If you enjoy ARR, good for you, but for average MMORPG player, it's too long with a story that isn't interesting and doesn't pay off for the insane time investment.

Worldbuilding is also shit excuse, since even that could be condensed so much more and still portray same amount of lore. And if it was more condensed, player will remember more since they won't need to remember all the useless filler.

Since this wasn't linked in a thread yet, here's Josh Strife Hayes's video on why videogames should be good from a start and not after X hours. Whole video is on point and perfectly fits current state of new player's experience in FFXIV.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xtdaby3q6NI

[Adeacia]

Why not? We have cutscene, cutscene, cutscene in a videogame and yet it somehow works. If you enjoy ARR, good for you, but for average MMORPG player, it's too long with a story that isn't interesting and doesn't pay off for the insane time investment.

Worldbuilding is also shit excuse, since even that could be condensed so much more and still portray same amount of lore. And if it was more condensed, player will remember more since they won't need to remember all the useless filler.

Since this wasn't linked in a thread yet, here's Josh Strife Hayes's video on why videogames should be good from a start and not after X hours. Whole video is on point and perfectly fits current state of new player's experience in FFXIV.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xtdaby3q6NI

This is a Final Fantasy game FIRST, and an mmo second. If a person comes in with the wrong expectations, that isn't the fault of the game.

[Deo14]

This is a Final Fantasy game FIRST, and an mmo second. If a person comes in with the wrong expectations, that isn't the fault of the game.

Great excuse for flawed design. Tell me how should new player know any of that? If you search for FFXIV, you get bombed with "MMORPG" everywhere, but there is no "Warning: This game is 80% cutscenes". On top of that, you really overestimate how informed average gamer is about FF series. Everyone heard of FF, sure, but only fraction really played it and therefore knows how focused on story it is.

And even if they know, there is still benefit of the doubt. If Range Rover was to announce a new convertible, it's rational to assume that it's going look like convertible, even though company is known for SUVs. Same with FFXIV. If new title is MMORPG, it would make sense that it would play like MMORPG, not like single player FF game. I don't know how many MMORPGs have you played, but FFXIV is really unique case with the focus on a story. Expecting new players to know all of this is just naive.

Veterans trying not to gatekeep new players, the impossible challenge.

[Tanis_Ebonhart]

This is a Final Fantasy game FIRST, and an mmo second. If a person comes in with the wrong expectations, that isn't the fault of the game.

That doesn't sound like a good business decision.

[Atelier-Bagur]

It needs to be trimmed down more. I always hear people and streamers saying “arr is a slog but it gets better after” so clearly there is an issue. If people have to encourage others to push through the arr content so they dont quit then just makes fixes so it is more enjoyable for new players so its not even a thought in their mind.

Funny enough Ive heard other streamers actually enjoy ARR just fine and dont see it as a slog.

You know who really drives that opinion? The FFXIV community. Just like how they enjoy to harass and push other players to play the game, pay attention to the msq, and expect people to cry in various moments in the game like Haurchefaunts death, Ardbert etc and whats worse is them pushing their own opinions on the streamers with saying things like HW good, SB bad and not letting new players whom are recording their adventures some breathing room to form their own opinions.

Thats whats really happening, its the community doing what it does best; being very, very pushy.

[TheGrimace]

ARR's story is fine now.

I would just like more adjustments to ARR maps. It would be nice to have more things to do in older zones to keep drawing people back periodically, aside from S Rank hunts.

[Atelier-Bagur]

That doesn't sound like a good business decision.

I mean....its clearly still working somehow.

[Ravenblade1979]

Great excuse for flawed design. Tell me how should new player know any of that? If you search for FFXIV, you get bombed with "MMORPG" everywhere, but there is no "Warning: This game is 80% cutscenes". On top of that, you really overestimate how informed average gamer is about FF series. Everyone heard of FF, sure, but only fraction really played it and therefore knows how focused on story it is.

And even if they know, there is still benefit of the doubt. If Range Rover was to announce a new convertible, it's rational to assume that it's going look like convertible, even though company is known for SUVs. Same with FFXIV. If new title is MMORPG, it would make sense that it would play like MMORPG, not like single player FF game. I don't know how many MMORPGs have you played, but FFXIV is really unique case with the focus on a story. Expecting new players to know all of this is just naive.

Veterans trying not to gatekeep new players, the impossible challenge.

worked out well for ff11. that was their first mmorpg and it was story driven and its 20 years old. you hit onto something. not alot who may want to try this have played any of the franchise but that doesn't mean the devs make this cookie cutter as the rest of the mmo's out there. anyone who been with this franchise since the start will tell you its story driven and will remain story driven. the fact this is a mmo just means they spread the story out amongst patchs and expansions and not give it all in one go.

i also get your thought on "it would make sense it would play like mmorpg". however this thought process would again be for the people who have no prior history of this franchise. then they come into it and find out different and either like it or don't. doesn't mean its a flawed system. just means the company is still following its formula of story telling its known for since the very start of the franchise. i mean with media out there. if a person was curious as to how it is played and stuff. they only need to look at youtube videos, twitch streams, live youtube streams etc. its not like the information about what type of game this is is secret and hidden lol.