"You pull, you tank" is a bad mentality

[Rhysati]

Self centred is 1 person being prioritized over the other 3. Self is singular. So is the number 1

Yes, and in their example, you are the one person being prioritized. You have no idea in almost all situations what the other people in your party want. You weren't elected to speak for them.

[Miracle_Diva]

I agree with that. As long as the person is ABLE to play at that level. Walk through a dungeon is a bad example, because that's willingly making people lose their time. On the other hand, pulling small pack can be a lack of skill, and that, you can't blame a player for that. Deal with it or votekick him, but don't come on the forum saying those people are a problem.

Dungeons don't require any "special" skill level. But content later does. If you carry a person through everything because they "lack skill", later on they will expect the same from groups in harder content because that's how their entire journey went.
While not everyone will be interested in harder content, some people are. They join parties and waste everyone's time because they still have no idea what a stack marker is.
In the end they end up being kicked from groups and being avoided. That's not very great gaming experience.

Pulling one pack or two makes no difference in what buttons you press. But you save more resources using skills on 6 mobs instead of 3.
Also, I can come to forums to cry or talk about whatever "in game stuff" I want. That's what forums are for.

[CNitsah]

Dungeons don't require any "special" skill level. But content later does. If you carry a person through everything because they "lack skill", later on they will expect the same from groups in harder content because that's how their entire journey went.
While not everyone will be interested in harder content, some people are. They join parties and waste everyone's time because they still have no idea what a stack marker is.
In the end they end up being kicked from groups and being avoided. That's not very great gaming experience.

Pulling one pack or two makes no difference in what buttons you press. But you save more resources using skills on 6 mobs instead of 3.
Also, I can come to forums to cry or talk about whatever "in game stuff" I want. That's what forums are for.

You just proved my point, that you guys just don't want to play with people that have less skills than you. "people that lack skills make me loose my time" is basically what you just said. Then don't use DF, because that's mostly what you will find. And you use extreme examples to not admit it.

Also, I wouldn't call letting a tank go at the rythm he feels right carry him. To me letting him take is time is the best way for him to learn. I feel we're not talking about the dps taking the aggro instead of the tanks here. That goes also for that "harder content". Harder content has several tanks and barely any trash (or trash that will aggro you automatically anyway). So talking about harder content doesn't matter here.

I would add that I rarely see someone ASK if a tank want to try to go faster. No people run, say nothing, and aggro.

Finally, it's not only a question of "pressing the buttons" but a matter of pressure of playing a class you're not used to. I'm the first one raging when I get one of those, but hey they do what they can. Part of playing a mmo is having to deal with people, and some of them are really bad. It's annoying but if you want people that can play, use the PF instead of the DF.

[Miracle_Diva]

You just proved my point, that you guys just don't want to play with people that have less skills than you. "people that lack skills make me loose my time" is basically what you just said. Then don't use DF, because that's mostly what you will find.

Did you actually read what I said?

[CNitsah]

Did you actually read what I said?

How should I understand that if not "people that have less skill than me make me lose my time.

While not everyone will be interested in harder content, some people are. They join parties and waste everyone's time because they still have no idea what a stack marker is.

especially in the context of the thread. If we were talking about horrible players, sure, that could mean something else, but we're talking about letting a tank chose the rythm he is confortable with

[Miracle_Diva]

How should I understand that if not "people that have less skill than me make me lose my time.

It's not a good idea to twist someone's words when you clearly don't understand what the post is about.
I recommend reading again. Otherwise there's no point to continue this topic with you.

[Kolaina]

Yes, and in their example, you are the one person being prioritized. You have no idea in almost all situations what the other people in your party want. You weren't elected to speak for them.

Considering I run with my spouse, I personally am never 1 person being prioritized. We are also tank / healer so this discussion is not an issue for me. But my opinion is, tanks need to keep pace with the party.


@CNitsah

Just because you don’t agree doesn’t make me wrong

[MaxCarnage]

lol. That's the worst argument I've heard in a long time. self-centered means that only your interest matter, and you don't care about the ones of others. The fact you're 3 people self-centered that can't understand that the 4th one may not be able to do better just make you 3 self-centered people.

Being the one person in a run who doesn't want to play a certain way and expecting 3 others to conform is exactly what being self-centred is. In this example, the tank that wants to single pull while the other three members of the duty want double pulls. This is grade school stuff.

You can't have 3 people who all want the same thing be self-centred. That's called group interest. The one person who does not share the group's interest and expects conformity is self-centred.

Like, hello? Did you actually write that and think, "yes, that makes sense". Geez.

[TaleraRistain]

You're suggesting that a single individual in the party (the tank) has more say in the pace of the run than 3 other people. That is incredibly flawed. If I'm in a run with a slow tank and the rest of the party wants to go fast, then it's not really up to the tank. 3 people want to go faster, so they will. Now if I'm in a party with a tank that wants to go slow and I indicate a desire to go faster and the rest of the party wants to go slow, then I'm outvoted and speak nothing of it further. The idea that I should resign my vote due exclusively to not being the tank at a given moment is asinine. If people want to use trusts or run with friends more than solo queing then that is their choice of how to interact with the majority vote concept.

But what if the tank can't go faster? They might be undergeared or just inexperienced. The dps or healer may also not be up to par. They may *want* to go faster but the individual party makeup may just have limits. I think this is the main problem in groups today. It's not common to assess capability on a group by group basis, so people get locked into blanket mentalities of what should happen, when this can vary wildly in a randomly matched party.

[MaxCarnage]

But what if the tank can't go faster? They might be undergeared or just inexperienced. The dps or healer may also not be up to par. They may *want* to go faster but the individual party makeup may just have limits. I think this is the main problem in groups today. It's not common to assess capability on a group by group basis, so people get locked into blanket mentalities of what's should happen, when this can vary wildly in a randomly matched party.

If the tank is undergeared, then it's for the healer to decide if they can handle it. Even if a tank is not familiar with their mits, it is up to the healer to decide if they can handle the improper CD usuage.

The tank may be the one keeping aggro, but the healer is the one keeping them alive. So if they can handle a squishy, sprout tank double pulling, then double pull.

I've seen healers keep DPS alive through tank busters and double pulls. If they can do that, they can keep a green tank alive.