Length MSQ from all the expansions - it is getting insane

[R041]

I mean I agree with what you say about other live service games coming out that could adapt to change much quicker. I don't feel like I can form an opinion on direction or if they are doing something too safe till the release of 7.0 It is easy to say variation of content Endwalker has approached things differently whether that is successfully is a matter of opinion (For me its brought good content types but it needs to invest in the long term viability of them)

If 7.0 and the 7.X series sticks the same then I agree there will be a decline or loss of players due to that staleness. I think it is impossible for them to course correct anything right this minute especially with their resources dedicated to say the visual update or duty support. We have spoken about them letting players start at an expansion but I think duty support could be a stepping stone to allow that. If we let people start from current, those that choose not to may struggle with queue times down the line so duty support allowing players to naturally progress through the game from the beginning will be a good thing for instance.

The reason I've been frustrated lately - And I think this is the best analogy I can come up with.. Is that for as long as myself and others have been playing (Like yourself), it feels like Yoshi is kinda pulling us all out to sea in a slow rowboat, and after so many years, we look back and we see there are people on that shore that want to reach us and have fun. But they either have to swim for 300 hours or pay for a jetski. Anecdotally, most people I know can't reach the end of that 300 hour stretch unless someone hypes them up. It's not naturally backed up by it's own brilliance. You basically have to give up on your friends and expect that the only people you'll probably play with in the end, are those that managed to make it by themselves somehow.

We also can't really comprehend how long 300 hours of single-player gameplay is, in a game promoted as an MMO. Or at least it's difficult for me to comprehend because I didn't play that way. I was rowed out slowly over that decade as it was an MMO, playing the MMO bits.

It's cool that they're going back and fixing old content, but what does that actually say about their priorities as an MMO? It probably says, they don't care and they're comfortable with charging for a single-player experience. They don't try to change how the MSQ plays, it's all been the same. Nothing gets 'better'. The story, arguably at some beats does get more interesting. But the MSQ ultimately never actually gets better mechanically. So they seem somewhat happy with their decision to just keep this 300 hour stretch of solo gameplay. It's weird, and it's dug itself into some strange deep crevice of linear themepark. Except the main attraction is a rollercoaster that rides on a rail at the same speed for hours, and sometimes does a loop or turn once every 5.

[GTK0HLK]

Ah, ..,
feels like a number of threads have fallen over the edge<not the good way>

[Many of the positions being reduced to name-calling, whilst a few holding onto reasonable, but only from a perspective views.]
Specially when MMOs, and RPGs have a set goal.
The whole, not right/wrong.
Both MMOs, and RPGs are a journey.
Many do it differently, but it would only make sense that both combined would have a longer journey than individually.
[This thread is reduced to, Valid cause it's a point, but it doesn't mean it works/sticks to what is needed of the game for the players.]
<Just like Console Players or Direct from Company PC users tend to be One-Game/only long time players. ( or at least I would be if I was still on the ps platform. but that's more relevant to how it was viewed back when. when now it's about spreading time. which steam excels at, as your friends are likely elsewhere than rolling the one game.(much more likely)>

It's clearly abundant where this thread is at. (and why many have learned to avoid when it gets to this point)

<Various Points, Some worth nothing, others worth something. Some worth discussing, get entrenched on it to understand/reason. Head in sand, or in the clouds. The Rest are tired. The Tired Release their feelings, which are understandable from that perspective.>

TLDR:More clearer hopefully.

Many games build up differently, The story is, cause it's seen as the main point.
It's solo development, to entice new players. (it's all built to entice, and while they f.., up over the time, like with Roths which was their preferred race to make over viera to draw in new players. Which ended up neglected for a time cause of the dual development.) and for the rest a Journey, one that the players themselves shoot in the foot with.(Better I'm "Expac name", ARR is the barrier if entry.) and not sell it why what it is. <a journey/story that is enjoyed not rushed. but at your own pace.> [Endgame topics can be discussed elsewhere, as the Threads intent is not]
<It became from some view points of rushing others to be with friends, when friends can always be there with them regardless.>

if games were a book, it's only reasonable that a larger library would have people shelfing more of them, when one has run out of chapters, or side details relating to the world. And Multi-Book Stories to be read chronologically, despite the fact wishing for new readers to be able to be where you are and enjoy it together.

<But even if the Numbers, or being able to be where you are immediately was possible. Something else will pay it's price.
You only have to see the regrets of some, and the memes made from others who judged without trying.>

[CStrife912]

The reason I've been frustrated lately - And I think this is the best analogy I can come up with.. Is that for as long as myself and others have been playing (Like yourself), it feels like Yoshi is kinda pulling us all out to sea in a slow rowboat, and after so many years, we look back and we see there are people on that shore that want to reach us and have fun.

I like this bit of your analogy it is for the most part pretty accurate. It was always going to be difficult for them to tackle at some point but they have let it go on too long without any real intention of addressing it. I mean end of the day if they say they think it goes against the design intent I am not going to argue against it. If however they roundabout beat round the bush I would rather they stick to one answer or another.

In regards to fixing the old stuff...the game is 10 years old...combat design changes and their changes for the most part are so much better then what was there before. I would say more people are less inclined to get beyond ARR then everything else...ARR is still the big kick in the dick point in my opinion. I mean we have had more mechanical-based things in solo story duties or them adding npcs following you and offering context and expanding lore but you are right it isn't enough in the grand scheme of things and I would like them to do more with that.

Maybe them allocating more to animation allows them to make the msq less static in cutscenes for instance or increasing the memory allocation could allow for different styles of content with enemies on screen I'm spitballing ideas (Im quite bushed from the work week) but we are in alignment with change at least in some capacity needs to happen. I don't think I personally can hit a point when il unsub from the game...it would more be a case it will move from a main game to a secondary game. Which by all means isn't a bad thing but we all want to be spending more time in the world of the game we love.

Its why Blue Protocol has interested me if that comes out this year that is...I like playing Genshin here and there and it looks like Genshin and FF14 had a baby for the most part, but then I am torn because while I have done most of what I want in 14 currently. Max melded crafter/gatherers outside of their tools, done the PVP to 25 for the reward and done all gatherer relics and slowly began on crafter relics...also have 4 battle relics cause I don't use every class even though I have them all to 90. It has been refreshing to not have to keep playing every day and play some of my backlog. I have played through so many games and still managed to get on with bits in 14 and I thank it for that but I would never want that to be everyone's experience I know full well many what a daily reason to get into the game and I do hope sooner rather than later we get that answer.

[Boblawblah]

Ah, ..,
feels like a number of threads have fallen over the edge<not the good way>

[Many of the positions being reduced to name-calling, whilst a few holding onto reasonable, but only from a perspective views.]
Specially when MMOs, and RPGs have a set goal.
The whole, not right/wrong.
Both MMOs, and RPGs are a journey.
Many do it differently, but it would only make sense that both combined would have a longer journey than individually.
[This thread is reduced to, Valid cause it's a point, but it doesn't mean it works/sticks to what is needed of the game for the players.]
<Just like Console Players or Direct from Company PC users tend to be One-Game/only long time players. ( or at least I would be if I was still on the ps platform. but that's more relevant to how it was viewed back when. when now it's about spreading time. which steam excels at, as your friends are likely elsewhere than rolling the one game.(much more likely)>

It's clearly abundant where this thread is at. (and why many have learned to avoid when it gets to this point)

<Various Points, Some worth nothing, others worth something. Some worth discussing, get entrenched on it to understand/reason. Head in sand, or in the clouds. The Rest are tired. The Tired Release their feelings, which are understandable from that perspective.>

TLDR:More clearer hopefully.

Many games build up differently, The story is, cause it's seen as the main point.
It's solo development, to entice new players. (it's all built to entice, and while they f.., up over the time, like with Roths which was their preferred race to make over viera to draw in new players. Which ended up neglected for a time cause of the dual development.) and for the rest a Journey, one that the players themselves shoot in the foot with.(Better I'm "Expac name", ARR is the barrier if entry.) and not sell it why what it is. <a journey/story that is enjoyed not rushed. but at your own pace.> [Endgame topics can be discussed elsewhere, as the Threads intent is not]
<It became from some view points of rushing others to be with friends, when friends can always be there with them regardless.>

if games were a book, it's only reasonable that a larger library would have people shelfing more of them, when one has run out of chapters, or side details relating to the world. And Multi-Book Stories to be read chronologically, despite the fact wishing for new readers to be able to be where you are and enjoy it together.

<But even if the Numbers, or being able to be where you are immediately was possible. Something else will pay it's price.
You only have to see the regrets of some, and the memes made from others who judged without trying.>

Maybe i'm biting on a troll here, but using <>, [], AND () in different combinations, none of which are clear WHY you're using them, makes it very difficult to understand your post.

[R041]

TLDR:More clearer hopefully.

Many games build up differently, The story is, cause it's seen as the main point.

MSQ is all about friendship.. Oh that dude in your dungeon? Nonono, that's a rando, we don't talk to those. I mean your real friend. Alphinaud. He'll always be there for you, thick and thin bro. 20 years, manga RPG.

Everyone in your FC stops logging in? Dead game? We don't do content with humans anymore silly, only Alphinaud.

[Sotaris]

It's funny how people now say it's a dead game and Endwalker has been the most lackluster expansion to date. Meanwhile, I'm probably having more fun than I've had in years with the game. Don't mind the new story, I'm excited to see what it leads into.

[CStrife912]

It's funny how people now say it's a dead game and Endwalker has been the most lackluster expansion to date. Meanwhile, I'm probably having more fun than I've had in years with the game. Don't mind the new story, I'm excited to see what it leads into.

While I agree with the idea that change needs to happen in some capacity its easy to ascertian that the forums is the more cynical hub of opinions. This is just a mere drop in the pond where everyone else is just enjoying the game, for me personally I had more to do in say post-Shadowbringers but I have appreciated the changes to PVP (Never played it beforehand) the QoL in general, Island and Variant are interesting and I hope they get expanded enough. I really liked a lot about the EW story, granted it did feel they couldn't do 2 more expansions to finish it up and condensed them into 1 however it didn't feel as disjointed as the 2 narratives stormblood tried to balance.

[Rolder50]

It's funny how people now say it's a dead game and Endwalker has been the most lackluster expansion to date. Meanwhile, I'm probably having more fun than I've had in years with the game. Don't mind the new story, I'm excited to see what it leads into.

I have to ask: When did you first start playing? I feel like a lot of the complaints are from people who know how the game used to be.

[Striker44]

It's funny how people now say it's a dead game and Endwalker has been the most lackluster expansion to date. Meanwhile, I'm probably having more fun than I've had in years with the game. Don't mind the new story, I'm excited to see what it leads into.

Yeah, the forums have this small but dedicated negative echo chamber. Go in game and you realize the reality for the overwhelming majority of the playerbase is the complete opposite. The EW population is the largest the game has ever been, and even when people inevitably take time off during the "lulls," there's still significantly more active players now than at similar points in past expansions. Go practically anywhere on the internet outside of this forum, and the sentiment about EW will be strongly in its favor.

I have to ask: When did you first start playing? I feel like a lot of the complaints are from people who know how the game used to be.

This I think is an important point. I see it not so much as "when you did start playing," but rather "how resistant are you to change?" The simple reality is that everything will change over time. Some people just aren't able or willing to accept that. There's also nostalgia and the proverbial rose-colored glasses that give people an inaccurate perception of what things were like "pre-change." Personally, I've matured enough to roll with the changes, and heck, some of those changes are definitely suitable for me. I started playing FFXIV back in 2015, so I know how the game "used to be," and I've seen most of the changes as neutral or better for my enjoyment of the game. Yes, part of me "misses" my early days in WoW back in 2005 when you'd stand around in a town getting a group of people from your server together, then heading to a dungeon that might take 1-2 hours to complete. I also know that I have nowhere near the time to do that now, and what I *really* miss isn't the design of the game, but *having* that time and MMO's in general being a new experience.

So now? I enjoy that I can pop on during a limited window and still feel like I'm making progress. I like that classes have become more homogenized so that I can not feel completely overwhelmed trying to learn a new one from scratch, which in turn lets me try more out. I like that we went from Class Quests to Role Quests, since I love the lore behind them, but there's no way I'd have the time to level every class. Leveling one of each role, however? Much more feasible. It's all about recognizing the inevitability of change and being able to grow and roll with it.

[Lukha]

The reason I've been frustrated lately - And I think this is the best analogy I can come up with.. Is that for as long as myself and others have been playing (Like yourself), it feels like Yoshi is kinda pulling us all out to sea in a slow rowboat, and after so many years, we look back and we see there are people on that shore that want to reach us and have fun. But they either have to swim for 300 hours or pay for a jetski. Anecdotally, most people I know can't reach the end of that 300 hour stretch unless someone hypes them up. It's not naturally backed up by it's own brilliance. You basically have to give up on your friends and expect that the only people you'll probably play with in the end, are those that managed to make it by themselves somehow.

We also can't really comprehend how long 300 hours of single-player gameplay is, in a game promoted as an MMO. Or at least it's difficult for me to comprehend because I didn't play that way. I was rowed out slowly over that decade as it was an MMO, playing the MMO bits.

It's cool that they're going back and fixing old content, but what does that actually say about their priorities as an MMO? It probably says, they don't care and they're comfortable with charging for a single-player experience. They don't try to change how the MSQ plays, it's all been the same. Nothing gets 'better'. The story, arguably at some beats does get more interesting. But the MSQ ultimately never actually gets better mechanically. So they seem somewhat happy with their decision to just keep this 300 hour stretch of solo gameplay. It's weird, and it's dug itself into some strange deep crevice of linear themepark. Except the main attraction is a rollercoaster that rides on a rail at the same speed for hours, and sometimes does a loop or turn once every 5.

I mean, what do you want them to do, exactly? Truncate or remove parts of the story? In a story-driven game in a story driven series? I'm not sure what else you could want or expect, other than them adding a free instant-90 button which we all know they won't do because they charge money for that.

You currently have two options:
A. Play through the story
B. Pay to skip through the story.

Those of us who enjoy the story and go back to replay it occasionally are never gonna be in favor of anything that messes with that, and I, 'anecdotally' as you say, know plenty of new players who enjoy the story as-is and take the time to play through it even though some of them are a bit impatient to get to the 'end game'. Those who don't care about the story and just wanna skip straight to the pew pew have the option of paying to skip.
What's the possible third option that doesn't ruin the experience for others and doesn't lose SE skip money?