I didn't think I'd miss Kaiten that much...

[CelestiCer]

Samurai's clearly found " Kaiten " Fun, which is subjective. Arguing what we or I find more fun as a 24/7 Samurai main about Samurai? is pointless.

Kaiten provided a much needed layer of depth, by always having 20 Kenki ready before every Iaijutsu or Ogi-Namikiri. This sound so simple, but you needed to...

• Not trigger finger 25 Kenki Shinten
• Not overcap with 50 Kenki Ikishoten
• Not missuse 50 Kenki (now 25 ) Senei
• Rare case nuance usages of Yaten/Gyoten 10 Kenki
• Third Eye effecting your Kenki by 10

By design, this makes your Samurai's Gauge the last of it's kind that is very interactive. Telling us that " Shinten Spamming " is any better? is beyond Shallow. This provided an ounce of complexity that even top players miss execute, even if its rarely? because we're not robots. Being good at it? is a sign that you mastered it. And Kaiten never stood in the way of clearing any content, making the argument that it made Samurai to difficult to play? false.

So we have one last thing to tackle... " Why advocate for Kaiten's removal when you don't even play Samurai? " cause that's really the big kicker when many of you don't main nor play Samurai. I'd really like to know how this benefits you if you don't play Samurai...

[VentVanitas]

I've legitimately never seen the term button bloat so frequently thrown until EW dropped, even more so after the SAM rework. To the point that I feel like what's actually considered "button bloat" has been blurred.

[Zairava]

Dear. Christ.

Button bloat is such an overused term it should be damned and forbidden. There's a difference between having a lot of buttons that fit nicely with each other and having a lot (or too many) buttons that don't.

Samurai is not a case of button bloat, it wasn't before Kaiten's asinine removal, and it isn't now. Everything in the kit fits and works nicely with each other. Before Kaiten got removed I'd argue that EW samurai was at its peak in terms of design. Now it's entire mantre got slaughtered because of some half-assed excuse of "button-bloat" when there were blatantly other methods of reducing the amount of actions on your bar.

It isn't good to remove an entire playstyle and flavor that a dedicated part of the playerbase loved about the job. Especially when it's for...who exactly? The people that didn't even want to learn the job in the first place? This is the exact reason why Kaiten's removal continues to receive such backlash, and is likely the reason why AST and DRG's mini reworks were delayed until the next expansion.

If you want a case of actual button bloat you can look at Paladin. Shield Bash might as well be removed because it is only used in incredibly rare circumstances such as Deep Dungeon. Cover got neutered in Shadowbringers it's honestly a wonder how it still exists too, because it's either broken or F-tier due to it being near impossible to balance. Sheltron and Intervention aren't combined like every other short Tank CD because...reasons?

We keep repeating ourselves on the forums beating a dead horse because we almost never receive any information on what they're going to do with them outside of part 2 of the PLL before major patches and before expansion launches. They asked people for their feedback on Kaiten's removal, and we got...nothing. It is no wonder at all that people on here are frustrated and tired of constantly repeating the same dead points just for it to be either ignored, never brought up, or yet another vague response. It took us 7 Years just to get Living Dead to finally not be a suicide mission. If you don't see an issue with that I don't know what to tell you.

[Arohk]

A lot of people also advertise their ERP Lala diaper orgies on PF, it doesn't make it right.
They should also add optional AI mode that plays your character for you using the Trust AI system even in savage and ultimates, should be able to clear the fight with zero mistakes, that way we could all play Final Fantasy Cookie Clicker.

You argument is so dumb, not even worth responding.

[ZiraZ]

You argument is so dumb, not even worth responding.

Just as dumb as pvp combos in pve, and you still responded.

[CelestiCer]

Dear. Christ.

Button bloat is such an overused term it should be damned and forbidden. There's a difference between having a lot of buttons that fit nicely with each other and having a lot (or too many) buttons that don't.

Samurai is not a case of button bloat, it wasn't before Kaiten's asinine removal, and it isn't now.

I hear no nothing either by the players who want Kaiten to stay removed mentioning anything about...

• Shoha I and II merging/fusing
• Guren and Senei merging as 1 skill
• Ikishoten turning into Oginamikiri
• Iaijutsu button turning into Tsubame

Saving us " Four " buttons if we really needed to tackle button bloat without changing our Gameplay. None of these suggestions came to mind to any person that seemingly want Kaiten gone to solve that supposedly non-existing Button Bloat issue we had.

[Ransu]

PvP combos in PvE is the day I quit the game and that's from someone that enjoys the new PvP.

[ForsakenRoe]

Anyone who asks for XIVCombo, PVP combo in PVE, etc, probably ought to A: get good, B: stop selfreporting for using '3rd party plugins that make gameplay easier' (big nono), and C: go main healer for a while. You'll learn pretty quick that 'one button damage rotation' is actually very bloody boring. Or maybe you won't, and I'll have helped people find a more enjoyable main class, which I'd also consider a win.

If people want to have 'one button rotation' as a DPS though, uhh, play Bard. We've already lost enough depth from classes as it is, we don't need to have any more taken away. What else should we do while we're at it, remove the debuff upkeep from RPR? Remove the 1min DOT from SAM? Remove the DOTs from BRD and make it an actual 1 button class?

[Kabooa]

Anyone who asks for XIVCombo, PVP combo in PVE, etc, probably ought to A: get good, B: stop selfreporting for using '3rd party plugins that make gameplay easier' (big nono), and C: go main healer for a while. You'll learn pretty quick that 'one button damage rotation' is actually very bloody boring. Or maybe you won't, and I'll have helped people find a more enjoyable main class, which I'd also consider a win.

If people want to have 'one button rotation' as a DPS though, uhh, play Bard. We've already lost enough depth from classes as it is, we don't need to have any more taken away. What else should we do while we're at it, remove the debuff upkeep from RPR? Remove the 1min DOT from SAM? Remove the DOTs from BRD and make it an actual 1 button class?

I agree.

Get rid of Eukrasian consolidation.

Paradox should be a separate button.

Each continuation on Gunbreaker should be its own button.

Iaijutsu? Separate buttons.

No more catering to the casuals! Everyone knows that the more buttons you have, the more hardcore your game is!

Red mages should have to press every single spell they have on a different keybind.

Summoner? 3 ruins or 10 ruins, they should be their own keybinds!

Ten Chi Jin? You should have to hit Ninjutsu between them, casual.

Every single consolidation needs to be removed, else somebody might look at my game and think it's too easy.

[fulminating]

The farmer called and he would like his strawman back.