SCH - Faerie Galmour: Discuss!

[Renathras]

Agreed on the Sylphie thing, it's a split in what the lore says and what people interpreted it as. I think though, an alternative way to explain why people might be using it in the 'derogatory' is not because of 'Sylphie was refusing to do damage spells', but 'Sylphie was refusing to listen to people who have been doing this shit for way longer than her, and know way more about it, so she should stop being so petulant and try listening to the advice before dismissing it out of hand'

The problem with that argument is a lot of accused "Sylphies" have been doing this as long or longer (not to mention appeal to experience isn't always valid), so that doesn't work, either.

How is this not 'do damage when allies are safe' category, and therefore an issue that needs to be addressed?

Because the game doesn't say "when allies are safe" in the training that you're appealing to.

Note here I'm not saying what you're doing isn't optimal. I'm contesting the argument that the game TELLS PEOPLE to play that way. Consider that the game does not, at ANY point, even mention the difference between a GCD and oGCD, much less tell players how to heal primarily using the latter nor what weaving is.

Less time between raidwides (but making them a little weaker comparatively) ala Barb would help, but you've said several times that Barb was 'hell in week 1'

Because of the movement. If the fight had less required movement, then it would have been tuned about right. I've said several times that the design of weaker but more frequent IS the way to go, with the caveat that it needs to allow healers to stand still for GCD AOE casts. BarbEx didn't do that, and that was the reason it was "hell in week 1" (it WAS that bad, actually). The damage profile itself wasn't a problem. So that method of solving the problem is actually the ideal here.

In other words, weaker but more frequent healing requirements NEEDS to be where it can be solved by more frequent GCD heal use. When the fight is designed for high movement that precludes GCD heal use (aside from instant cast GCD heals, which are the minority), that's the problem here, not the more frequent but smaller damage hits.

Increasing how hard the raidwide hits for is just going to put even more dependence on Mit (and specifically non-healer mit) which already caused problems this tier, so that's out.

Disagree on this as well. The resounding response from Healers to P5-8S was not really that the healing part was bad, it's that Healers had to rely on DPS (and to a lesser extent, Tanks). The result here is that this method could ALSO work if mitigations are shunted to the Healer kits, not sprinkled around the other Roles instead of Healers.

So what other method can we solve this downtime issue that we haven't ruled out yet? Oh right.

Why do we need an "other method" when either or both of the above can work just fine?

When it's by design that its possible for two BIS healers working together to get their combined GCD heal casts into the low single digits, I don't think it's really possible to 'go back' to a time where the healing was more GCD focused. It'd be like when WOW put all their damage buff CDs onto the GCD to stop 'Swifty Macros', people lost their shit, this would likely be no different

Except, as you noted, they did this with BarbEx. Moreover, all they'd really have to do is prune some of the oGCDs or convert some of them into GCDs in an Expansion patch and gg.

Besides, your solution is for Healers to have more involved damage rotations where there's a noticeable gap between skill floor and skill ceiling Healer players. You don't think people would "lose their shit" over that? Really?

People "lost their shit" over a damage gap to the point PLD underwent a major rework and MCH was given potency buffs AND a new party utility tool because of the gap between them. Do you think in a game where people obsess over a 0.7% DPS gap that this would go over well? Like...reallllly? "But good players wouldn't have that gap!" which leads to the exact thing Yoshi P is trying to avoid - a bunch of people quitting Healing because the damage part can't be kept up with.

[Sebazy]

Besides, your solution is for Healers to have more involved damage rotations where there's a noticeable gap between skill floor and skill ceiling Healer players. You don't think people would "lose their shit" over that? Really?

Still with this point....


Again I ask, what's the actual problem with it?

Have you actually looked at the logs for a typical 24 man? People fail HARD in casual content just fine already. It's going to make absolutely no difference if they fail hard smashing one button, or playing tick tack toe with 4.

It's not going to make a difference in Dungeons, Alliance Raids or Extremes. It *may* make a difference in the later floors of a Savage tier or Ultimate but again. If someone can't handle a basic DPS rotation, proc system or additional dots, I'm wondering what they are doing in that content anyway.

Meanwhile if we bump up healing requirements in casual content high enough to the point where someone like me would actually notice and enjoy it? That's going to crush casual 24 man enjoyers. I find it genuinely strange that you firmly believe that any extra damage complexity will blow apart the game, yet don't seem to be capable of understanding that there are a concerning amount of healers who struggle to keep up with the minimal healing demands we have currently.

[AmiableApkallu]

Have you actually looked at the logs for a typical 24 man? People fail HARD in casual content just fine already. It's going to make absolutely no difference if they fail hard smashing one button, or playing tick tack toe with 4.

It's not going to make a difference in Dungeons, Alliance Raids or Extremes. It *may* make a difference in the later floors of a Savage tier or Ultimate but again. If someone can't handle a basic DPS rotation, proc system or additional dots, I'm wondering what they are doing in that content anyway.

Meanwhile if we bump up healing requirements in casual content high enough to the point where someone like me would actually notice and enjoy it? That's going to crush casual 24 man enjoyers. I find it genuinely strange that you firmly believe that any extra damage complexity will blow apart the game, yet don't seem to be capable of understanding that there are a concerning amount of healers who struggle to keep up with the minimal healing demands we have currently.

Tuning healing requirements high enough to make healers necessary means the healers in the party are no longer allowed to make mistakes, because if they hit the floor, that's a wipe. I can't see that working in "casual" content unless everyone in the party also gets, say, a charge or two of a Duty Action called "Phoenix Down."

On the other hand, non-optimal DPS rotations just means encounters drag on for longer, which is indistinguishable from non-optimal DPS from people making mistakes, hitting the floor, and getting raised.

[Allegor]

Tuning healing requirements high enough to make healers necessary means the healers in the party are no longer allowed to make mistakes, because if they hit the floor, that's a wipe. I can't see that working in "casual" content unless everyone in the party also gets, say, a charge or two of a Duty Action called "Phoenix Down."

On the other hand, non-optimal DPS rotations just means encounters drag on for longer, which is indistinguishable from non-optimal DPS from people making mistakes, hitting the floor, and getting raised.

I mean, if healing was more extensively required, then healer dps would indeed become 'optional' so they wouldn't really be enforcing them to dps except for high end fights, and people don't tend to slack off in that type of content anyways. Also, the healer dying due to difficulty would be no different than dying on the first week of a patch due to not knowing the fight mechanics - Wipe, adapt, try again. It already happens a lot in leveling dungeons and nobody makes a fuzz about it, because it's expected it can happen.