Delete rescue from the game.

[WaxSw]

Honestly for the people who say Sage is fine and that toxikon should be damage neutral

-Sage is the "dps" healer yet its rotation is the same as the other 3 spamming one button for almost every gcd, there is no diferentiation and that is far below what should be considered acceptable when games with healers that barely deal damage have more involved rotations, that is not "fine".

-Damage neutral toxikon (by damage increase) with the current healer design is a bad idea. Currently the only skill ceiling Sage has is how little gcd's they use to heal and how they move, this encourages being knowledgeable about their cds and the extent they can use it, an increase to toxikon damage would remove the job from that little ceiling as it woudn't matter what they do (gcd or cooldown planning) all would be neutral and wouldn't encourage job or fight knowledge and this without going into how it would impact its aoe cause it would make dyskrasia obsolete unless this action is buffed too and that would lead to an adjustment of every healer aoe capabilities.

-Increase on Phlegma range is a semi bad idea, range is usually big enough for most boss arenas but the shorter range plays a bigger role than it seems, Sage lacks any disjointed heal so in order to heal effectively it needs to be closer to the boss, phlegma acts as a way to lure sages into that optimal healing range and also as a guide to know how far some party members may be (If party member is 2xphlegma range or closer they'll get healed)

-Its healing kit needs differentiation and not being basically selfish Sch2.0 but slightly better for multihits and worse for big hits

The job is far from fine, as it is right now is one of the most soulless jobs this game ever released

[Tigore]

@WaxSw

Umm .... if the Sage class is soulless to you, what would you change to make it better? So far, you are shooting down a few ideas to suggest you like some current aspects. How about the idea of adding DPS buttons for the Addersgall resource? Would that help at least or do you think it would discourage some important buttons too much with competition of resources? Technically we already have a 2nd resource for DPSing with Addersting. Are there some more spells you would like to see use it? Do we need another resource for the class and why? Should the spells you want just have its own independent cooldown? Also for a bigger question, should we consider asking for melee style healers since all 4 of them now are ranged?

As for the healing kit, it does have slight differentiation at least. Haima and Panhaima act as multiple mini shields to be great against multiple hits. I am guessing you want this on the base shields too? The Kardia heals are comparable to the fairy, but it can have more control on who gets the off DPS heals. The fairy seems to pick anyone who is low on health if you are fine. Since this mechanic contributes quite a bit, it's why several players suggest the Soteria cooldown temporarily make it AoE instead of only buffing the single heals to an unnoticeable amount. The end result may mean that 1 Druochole or Ixochole on the DPS may not be needed with Dosis DPS lasers getting that heal instead with this suggested cooldown change. Which goes back to my thoughts if we need a couple DPS spells for Addersgall to proc that 7% mana regen with something that can always be used.

[WaxSw]

snip.

Will try to keep it short cause I could write some pages on how some aspects could change and some ideas that i've said in the past:

Personally for its dps, lean more into its unique aspects like addersting management, the augmentation of skills via eukrasia-like actions and phlegma-like attacks in terms of range, spitballing some ideas:

-A CD based eukrasia action (kinda like the pvp one) that open new combos depending on what actions you press (i.e eukrasia II->Eukrasian dosis II that gives a buff that changes dyskrasia into a new finisher and Eukrasia II->Eukrasian dyskrasia II that gives a buff that changes dosis into a new finisher) both combos could have different range one being ranged and the other having the same range as phlegma, give different effects (one could give a damage buff while the other could have more potency and higher kardia heal potency) and both could generate addersting

-Eukrasian dyskrasia (just copy miasma 2) and Eukrasian toxicon must happen, in the case of toxicon we could have a mini combo i.e eukrasian toxicon becomes the instant one but buffs the next toxicon used that could have a standard cast time, allowing the current niche of mobility while allowing some short of rotation of E!toxicon->toxicon->E!toxicon as well as some resource banking for burst windows

-They could introduce new ways and cooldowns to generate/use addersting, for example the idea of rhizomata generating addersting is good if we had some alternative uses of that addersting that is not "dps neutral instant cast" and if they want the sage to be generating/spending dps resources as a semi dps they could add traits like the old quickened aetherflow so that by using some actions you lower the cd of others (i.e you lower the cd of phlegma for every addersting used, phlegma lowers the cd of the addersting generators and the addersting generators lower the cd of the addersting spenders)

For the healing part I do agree that Haima and panhaima are good, in fact they are the most unique thing sage has to offer but they are not the rule, they are the exception, sadly addersgall is the bread and butter of sage and its a carbon copy of Sch cooldowns and changing this would be too big for something that is not called a rework but they could enhance the sage identity in different ways:

-The idea of a partywide kardia is good but this doesn't need to be a new action, they could change soteria like this "Grants 4 stacks of Soteria to all party members each stack healing every time a Kardion heal is activated, cure potency: 120" that way it would fulfill its current niche of extra single target sustain but also work as aoe heal

-If its the dps healer pneuma being the only heal that damages makes no sense and limits optimal use of Zoe, they could rebalance physis 2 and holos to work like pneuma (preferably those 2 being ground targeted attacks so they can be used in downtime) and give a bigger emphasis on Zoe, they could even recycle quickened aetherflow once again and make it so every addersgall used lowers the cd of Zoe and those heal/attacks

-Pepsis should be reworked, something on the line of "heals nearby party members with a potency of 100, if they were under the effect of the user's Eukrasian prognosis, Eukrasian Diagnosis, haimaton or panhaimaton restores an additional hp of (insert shield potency), if this effect happens aditionally reduces damage taken by 5% for 15s" would do wonders at all levels of play

-Something so kardia can be triggered during downtime, maybe an action that disables kardia for 10s but automatically heals every 2.5-3s with a 70-80% of the kardia potency

These are some (spitballed and probably unbalanced) ideas but the reason why I call it soulless is simply because it has no identity, they call it the dps healer but its dps side is identical to the other 3 and offers no significant differentiation nor its kit is deep enough to be granted that title and if you look at its healing side things are not bright either when the bulk of its healing is made in an almost exact way Sch does. This can go so far that in P8s, one of the most heal-demanding fights so far in EW only 20% of my total healing were those unique actions (+pneuma) that you mention, being the remaining 80% actions that are carbon copies of Sch's like kerachole, ixochole or physis

[Tigore]

From the looks of it, it looks like a couple filler combos with a 2 step Toxicon combo system being proposed. I am assuming the Dosis Dot will be dropped to allow for SCH differences? Or is it a combo bonus now? Right now, I am on my phone, so I may need to correct some things later on double checking the combos desired.

Dosis > E! Dosis > Modified Dyskrasia
Addersting is granted at the end
Repeat combo a 2nd time
E! Toxicon > Toxicon
Revert back to beginning

Aoe is similar except it uses this filler combo instead

Dyskrasia > E! Dyskrasia >Modified Dosis
Addersting is granted at the end as usual

The Phlegma would obviously be slotted in before each combo. Just focusing on the changes proposed.

If we are keeping the E! Prognosis Addersting generation or using Rhizomata, the combos could just be used once and then we go straight into the Toxicon combo.

For the Physis and Holos change, will it still retain the Hot and other effects they already have? Did you just want them to also damage the enemies within range too?

[WaxSw]

From the looks of it, it looks like a couple filler combos with a 2 step Toxicon combo system being proposed. I am assuming the Dosis Dot will be dropped to allow for SCH differences? Or is it a combo bonus now? Right now, I am on my phone, so I may need to correct some things later on double checking the combos desired.

Dosis > E! Dosis > Modified Dyskrasia
Addersting is granted at the end
Repeat combo a 2nd time
E! Toxicon > Toxicon
Revert back to beginning

Aoe is similar except it uses this filler combo instead

Dyskrasia > E! Dyskrasia >Modified Dosis
Addersting is granted at the end as usual

The Phlegma would obviously be slotted in before each combo. Just focusing on the changes proposed.

If we are keeping the E! Prognosis Addersting generation or using Rhizomata, the combos could just be used once and then we go straight into the Toxicon combo.

For the Physis and Holos change, will it still retain the Hot and other effects they already have? Did you just want them to also damage the enemies within range too?

No removal, I called Eukrasia like I could have called "new modification with greek name" the idea is that both could coexist, eukrasia would work the same as now and the "new mod with greek " would have its own cooldown (lets say 30-45s), the idea would be to have dosis and Eukrasian dosis as a filler, and the new "GREEK dosis, combo dyskrasia" and "GREEK dyskrasia, combo dosis" as different actions from their Eukrasian ones

So the flow would be E!Dosis->GREEK combo (dyskrasia->dosis for potency dosis->dyskrasia for dmg buff you can imagine them working like Rdm's finishers, changing already existing buttons into those actions) that you choose->get addersting->Addersting spender (Toxicon, E!Toxicon) and then phlegma as a way to deal more damage freely and accelerate the cooldowns of what generates addersting (Like the GREEK combo), the idea would be to have those systems feeding into each other so the player can accelerate/decelerate them at will and while they are at cooldown Sage would use dosis

For the Aoe the same would apply but E!Dyskrasia would be used instead of E!Dosis

And yes, the idea is that sage has to manage to not overcap resources, however E!prognosis is not used much in the majority of content and assuming a 45s cd on GREEK combos and 90 on rhizomata even with cd reductions the resource generation shoudnt be overwhelming (didn't want to dwelve to deep in CDS, charges and that for the sake of brevity)

And yes for the holos and physis the idea is to make them gcds that also deal damage without the need of a target so their healing affects can be modified by Zoe and can be used in downtime, in general the idea for what i think Sage should strive for in healing is that either
a) Is tied to addersgall or its cooldowns
b)Its a shield
c)Deal damage

[Tigore]

Ok. I was asking just to make sure we are on the same page. So a second Eukrasia is proposed to start the new cooldown combo. Should I use "C!" to represent this one? I will try to rewrite another priority list to make sure. I will not include the Holos or Physis temporarily, although Physis will likely be used first still to trigger higher healing like before.

Single Target or 2 Targets

E! Dosis
Toxicon > E! Toxicon (at 3 cap Addersting)
C! Dyskrasia > Modified Dosis
Phlegma
Toxicon > E! Toxicon
Dosis filler

AoE

E! Dyskrasia
Toxicon > E! Toxicon (at 3 cap Addersting)
C! Dosis > Modified Dyskrasia
Phlegma
Toxicon > E! Toxicon
E! Diagnosis on tank to proc Addersting
Dyskrasia filler