Normal/Savage Raids should be one big raid

[Rilifane]

The way normal/ savage raids are designed never appealed to me one bit. They're glorified trials, they're all about efficiency and having to spend as little time as possible with the content and for me, the atmosphere suffered greatly.
Raids have always been about fighting my through a dangerous, vast environment for me. Getting ported into a cube with a boss right in front of me just feels disconnected and sterile.

If they made trash a bit more interesting in terms of mechanics instead of being 5 target dummies dragged to one spot and maybe gave them some small drops like a few uncapped tomes or something and made sure that if you wipe to boss 3, you can teleport back to boss 3 instead of having to take a long walk through the entire dungeon again, I could see it happening. Increasing the duty timer would help as well so groups that prog savage don't have to worry about not getting enough practice time in.
And I think especially for savage, groups should be able to leave to get new members while keeping their instance with the progress they already made. Perhaps they could solve it so that as long as lead was passed on to someone who was part of the previous prog group, the instance and the prog gets passed on as well.

And there's something between never having to spend more than 20min and suddenly having to spend several hours with content and not being able to eat or go to the toilet. Exaggeration doesn't make a good point, it just sounds narrow-minded.

[Jeeqbit]

And there's something between never having to spend more than 20min and suddenly having to spend several hours with content and not being able to eat or go to the toilet. Exaggeration doesn't make a good point, it just sounds narrow-minded.

It's not an exaggeration. That is literally how other games I've played have been because there was not a duty finder. It was a lot like finding a party for BA without discord, or finding a party for savage at 3am by shouting around, with content that spans multiple bosses and trash. Between all of that I couldn't stop to eat hardly for hours. This game has been better than any other in that area.

What really is the difference between leaving at the third boss and then joining a new party and skipping to the third boss, and them being in separate instances, really?

[Rilifane]

It's not an exaggeration. That is literally how other games I've played have been because there was not a duty finder. It was a lot like finding a party for BA without discord, or finding a party for savage at 3am by shouting around, with content that spans multiple bosses and trash. Between all of that I couldn't stop to eat hardly for hours. This game has been better than any other in that area.

What really is the difference between leaving at the third boss and then joining a new party and skipping to the third boss, and them being in separate instances, really?

Would it make sense for me to say
"We cannot ever have character customization like talent trees because I played a game where you couldn't respect and if you bricked your spec, you had to level a new character from scratch"?
No?
Indeed, that is why it makes no sense immediately swining to the other extreme and saying because you have played some games where you apparently weren't allowed to eat or go to the toilet we cannot have proper dungeon-style raids. Because that IS deliberately picking extreme examples to argue against something that was never meant to be anywhere near the extremes that you saw. "Finding parties by shouting around"? Does it look like we still live in the stone age of MMOs? We already HAVE a Duty Finder and Party Finder so your example of games that didn't have either are completely pointless and yes, exaggerated.

And you're right, the difference isn't much for people who deliberately want to prog a certain boss - which I am honestly okay with. Is that a bad thing now?
A new party will have the entire dungeon-style raid again but someone filling in for a party being stuck at the 3rd boss won't have to. I was trying to find some middleground here because people like to instantly screech about not wanting to have to spend the entire day on fluff and I can see why it would be annoying to have to re-do the entire dungeon for every single wipe. While in an instance, trash and bosses shouldn't respawn.
That takes priority and since it wouldn't make sense to code in a way that a single person being behind resets the progress of the entire party yes, that option exists.
Which is also the way a lot of other games deal with it, by the way. Someone has a lockout to a certain part and whoever joins their "ID" gets to that point. No "spending hours and not being able to eat".

[Jeeqbit]

it makes no sense immediately swining to the other extreme and saying because you have played some games where you apparently weren't allowed to eat or go to the toilet we cannot have proper dungeon-style raids. Because that IS deliberately picking extreme examples to argue against something that was never meant to be anywhere near the extremes that you saw.

I don't think it's an extreme. It's pretty reasonable that splitting the floors up means you aren't forced to stay in the raid. Again we should look at the door boss in P8S. Once you are at part 2, the longest you can go afk is 10 minutes because you get kicked out otherwise and then you have to do part 1 all over again. Which is actually a problem if part 1 takes a lot of attempts to get through. This is the problem it creates and it would be worse with lots more bosses and therefore a longer completion timer.

We could have the system to just enter a duty in progress that is at that phase already or start at it, but from a developer point of view that is going to be a waste of their time to achieve almost the same thing that we have just to satisfy the technicality that it's all happening in the same instance.