Normal/Savage Raids should be one big raid

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

The reason why we went from the way coil was (large areas with trash and bosses and save states) to the arenas we have today is quite simple.



Players did what they could to avoid the dungeon aspect and just get to the bosses quickly. There were sack strats for t1, ninja or DRG sneak strats for t10, etc, etc.



They just responded to how the playerbase was playing the content.

[EliaStormblade]

For the record, if you are able to integrate teleports and non-respawning trash, the only con I can honestly think of is that people who want to just farm one boss (think p8 x4 now for the Abyssos Blades) might be a little annoyed.

Otherwise it seems like a perfectly fine idea.

[TomsYoungerBro]

I personally enjoy the general concept of how savage raids are presented. No filler, no nonsense. You teleport in and you fight the boss. I'm all for content like this, but not to change savage/normal raids. We already have alliance raids / BA / DR that can be expanded upon IMO

[Saraide]

I very much appreciate raids being just the juice bits: the boss fights. Criterion has confirmed this for me aswell. The trash mobs there are by far the least interesting part of criterion. The bosses being seperated also allows for each of them to be longer and more designed (in theory).

[Hasrat]

There's also the matter of time investment. Smaller chunks = more accessible. Players with limited time an tackle them piece by piece, players with more freedom can just blaze through them all. Making raids bigger/longer means freezing out some of that population.

[Xirean]

But what if I like the way it is now and don't like the sound of that idea? Honestly there's been times when I've questioned why trash mobs still exist as a normal staple in alliance raids, although the Myths series has found a way to incorporate them relatively well. When I think of "Raid" though I don't think of killing mobs, I think of big crazy fight and that's exactly what we get. People say they are glorified trials and I'm fine with that. Trials that pack a bigger punch but aren't EX, sounds perfect to me.

[Atelier-Bagur]

Many of you have provided valid points here, such as the time investment, the convenience of having bite-sized fights and these things I also agree with why the current design works.


But honestly, I feel like a lot more positives would come out from the raiding scene than the bad with going back to the old school dungeon design, at least with the loot aspect and gameplay wise. You could also argue that them having to work on the dungeon aspect of these could lead to better boss arenas if they could finally quit with the boring all these squares make a circle rooms where everything feels so formulaic to a fault. To me when I think of a "raid" I think of an actual raid into the boss's stronghold, not just knocking at each of their apartment doors like the grim reaper.

[Atelier-Bagur]

But what if I like the way it is now and don't like the sound of that idea? Honestly there's been times when I've questioned why trash mobs still exist as a normal staple in alliance raids, although the Myths series has found a way to incorporate them relatively well. When I think of "Raid" though I don't think of killing mobs, I think of big crazy fight and that's exactly what we get. People say they are glorified trials and I'm fine with that. Trials that pack a bigger punch but aren't EX, sounds perfect to me.

because fighting numerous enemies at once feels very satisfying? Has anyone ever played Dynasty Warriors? I like mob fights because it gives us a chance to go to town on some schmucks with our aoes, granted FFXIV's combat design isnt that well good for it anyway but if the idea is there it could also be where the devs have to better think of how to make combat more satisfying for single and multi- encounters.

[Xirean]

because fighting numerous enemies at once feels very satisfying? Has anyone ever played Dynasty Warriors? I like mob fights because it gives us a chance to go to town on some schmucks with our aoes, granted FFXIV's combat design isnt that well good for it anyway but if the idea is there it could also be where the devs have to better think of how to make combat more satisfying for single and multi- encounters.

But we already have that for normal dungeons. Why include it for raids as well?

[Guntank81]

Your ideal scenario would be a scaled-down version of a 24-player raid for 8 players. However, this format was abandoned in the middle of HW due to its low appeal. Many players dislike dealing with trash mobs, as they are tedious and time-consuming. Not everyone can afford to spend hours on raids that are artificially lengthened by filler enemies.