The reason FFXIV is lacking content is because of casualization.

[EliaStormblade]

I mean, relics have never been about difficulty in that sense, have they? they are grind content and grind content is a test of willpower, or, "how much can you afford to let your soul bleed before it's too much?", which is definitely an overly edgy way of putting it, but I was trying to play on your words.

That's my point. I personally don't see much value in repetitive masochism, which is why I would prefer a more novel approach than either tomestones or grind old shit that bores you to death and then be proud of cringing your way through it.

[Raoabolic]

That's my point. I personally don't see much value in repetitive masochism, which is why I would prefer a more novel approach than either tomestones or grind old shit that bores you to death and then be proud of cringing your way through it.

If you don't see value in repetitive masochism then why are you playing an MMO? Even now, the grind that people complain about would make an early 2000s MMO fan laugh in tears, lol. I'm not saying the genre can't evolve but evolution is one thing, transforming into something else is a different story.

[EliaStormblade]

If you don't see value in repetitive masochism then why are you playing an MMO? Even now, the grind that people complain about would make an early 2000s MMO fan laugh in tears, lol. I'm not saying the genre can't evolve but evolution is one thing, transforming into something else is a different story.

"It used to be worse/more pervasive" isn't a good argument to me.

You can have perfectly meaningful grinds.

A good example of what Elia Stormblade lookings for would be Skyscale questline in GW2. Mao loved that questline SO much!

I'll take your word for it. I haven't played a second of GW2, admittedly. What was it like, if you could elucidate?

[Raoabolic]

"It used to be worse/more pervasive" isn't a good argument to me.

You can have perfectly meaningful grinds.

I'll take your word on it. I haven't played a second of GW2, admittedly.

Who said worse, there are plenty who enjoy a crazy long grind. Relics were like that in MMOs at one time so it's shocking to many when WoW started to hand out relics for rather easy requirements. Some don't like the term "welfare relic" but it's not like that name came out of nowhere. It's XIV, so I know that there will always be this odd line drawn between easy and very difficult. That said, I seriously do not consider 1500 semicurrent tomestones a meaningful grind. Then again, I like the ARR relic books. Fite me. /box

[EliaStormblade]

Who said worse, there are plenty who enjoy a crazy long grind. Relics were like that in MMOs in one time so it's shocking to many when WoW started to hand out relics for rather easy requirements. Some don't like the term "welfare relic" but it's not like that name came out of nowhere. It's XIV, so I know that there will always be this odd line drawn between easy and very difficult. That said, I seriously do not consider 1500 semicurrent tomestones a meaningful grind. Then again, I like the ARR books. Fite me. /box

Again: you can have a crazy long grind and still have it mean something. If your point of pride is "I did something boring and braindead past the point of reason," then I think that's not really healthy? Just make it engaging, it's not impossible.

[Raoabolic]

Again: you can have a crazy long grind and still have it mean something. If your point of pride is "I did something boring and braindead past the point of reason," then I think that's not really healthy? Just make it engaging, it's not impossible.

See, now that's a silly argument considering we are talking about a video game genre that has roots in long grinds. Also, since we are talking about the relic steps, do you believe that 1500 tomestones is a meaningful grind?

[EliaStormblade]

See, now that's a silly argument considering we are talking about a video game genre that has roots in long grinds. Also, since we are talking about the relic steps, do you believe that 1500 tomestones is a meaningful grind?

I definitely don't recall indicating such anywhere.

[Eraden]

"It used to be worse/more pervasive" isn't a good argument to me.

You can have perfectly meaningful grinds.

I'll take your word for it. I haven't played a second of GW2, admittedly. What was it like, if you could elucidate?

Skyscale quest long and varied. Many different groups of steps. All had meanings for ultimate goal of gettings Skyscale mount.

[RyuDragnier]

Skyscale quest long and varied. Many different groups of steps. All had meanings fo ultimate goal of gettings Skyscale mount.

Ahh yes, the ungrateful sky child. So much zone hopping and running across the world to raise that child. Useful overall, but I don't wish that grind on anybody.

[Eastwall]

Skyscale quest long and varied. Many different groups of steps. All had meanings for ultimate goal of gettings Skyscale mount.

Well, most recent expansion provided a new and much easier way to get skyscale. I wonder why.